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Supplement Question

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your cat's diet, please contact your vet!

  


Member Since
02/27/2013
 
 
Purred: Thu Feb 28, '13 10:00am PST 
Hi there! I'm new here but I'm not sure why I don't have a username. I'm Megan and I have two cats, Zoe and Isabella.

I am very near to beginning a raw diet for the girls...I want want to have all my information settled so I don't make mistakes.

If I use a combo supplement with calcium added, do I still need to provide organ meat?

Thanks!
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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!
 
 
Purred: Thu Feb 28, '13 12:50pm PST 
Hi Megan and welcome! I'm not sure what kind of raw you are planning to feed and what resources you have read or what supplements you are considering. Have you read through catinfo.org, catnutrition.org, and rawfedcats.org? If you are feeding a ground diet like those featured on the first two web sites that I mentioned, then you probably want to add some supplements. If you are feeding a prey model, a.k.a frankenprey, diet, then I personally believe that you do not need to use supplements just so long as you basically stick to the 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ percentages. I feed mostly frankenprey, and I don't use any supplements.

If you use a combo supplement that provides calcium, do you still have to feed organs? I'm sure that is a typo, but calcium comes from bones, not organs. Feeding fresh organs if at all possible is much better than feeding a supplement; there is nothing as good as the real thing. I don't know what the stores are like where you live, but where I am it is not very hard to find liver and kidneys.

Please provide a little more info if I haven't really answered you questions.

Purrs,
Shade
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 1, '13 5:40am PST 
I'm pretty sure you're talking about the supplements you add to ground meat so you don't have to add bone or organs. They're designed to have all the daily nutrients you'd normally find in organs. They usually come with a "recipe" that will tell you what you need to add, for example if you need to add liver or not. I would follow their guidelines.
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Member Since
02/27/2013
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 1, '13 6:17am PST 
Thanks for replying!

I am planning on starting the girls out on ground without bone since they are used to canned and then go from there. I have a local butcher that where I can get bison, beef, chicken and duck. As we progress, I can look into sourcing other meats as well.

I have looked at raw fed cats and cat nutrition. I will check out cat info.

I am looking at a supplement powder from Know Better Pet Food - Better in the Raw. I am open to other suggestions as well. The ingredients listed for the supplement are:

Egg yolk, calcium lactate, liver powder, gelatin, whey protein concentrate, psyllium husks, EFA from fish, taurine, kelp, barley grass powder, Vitamin B complex, Vitamin E succinate.

What I was trying to ask - and I wasn't very clear red face is, if I use this supplement, do I still need to provide organ meats?

Thanks!
Megan
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Merlin - An Angel- Forever

*Poof*
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 1, '13 9:22am PST 
Oh, you're talking about a pre-mix smile TC Feline and Alnutrin are two other pre-mixes you can buy online.

I believe TC Feline has two types of pre-mixes, a regular one and a "plus" one. If you use the regular one, you will need to add in liver and organs. The "plus" one already has liver included.

Alnutrin has three types to choose from depending on what kind of raw diet you want to feed.

You can always feed organs meats as a treat smile
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Member Since
02/27/2013
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 1, '13 10:05am PST 
Thanks! I'll check those other mixes out. My plan is to start with ground meats and then once they are used to that, offering a wing for their teeth. Should I buy pre-ground or whole cuts to grind myself? Both would come from the butcher, not a big box store. Will the extra organs as treats throw off the balance if I am using a pre-mix? Will the extra bone in the wing add too much extra calcium?

Am I over-thinking this?

My main concern is making sure they are healthy and getting what they need. I am so, so afraid of making them sick. I would never forgive myself if something happened because I didn't really know what I was doing. I know that raw is the best for them, (just like eating whole fresh foods is good for me) but I don't want to hurt them in the process of figuring it out.

Thanks for the help!
Megan
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Merlin - An Angel- Forever

*Poof*
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 1, '13 5:12pm PST 
Feline Instincts is another pre-mix. There are several different pre-mixes available.

Buy whole cuts of meat and grind it up yourself. Store bought ground meat has bacteria mixed throughout it shock Grinders get dirty and may not always be cleaned thoroughly and properly shrug You'll probably want to invest in a good grinder. Dr Lisa of Catinfo.org recommends the Tasin grinder.

A piece of organ won't throw off the nutrient balance of the diet. I don't think cats ingest too much bone from gnawing on bones thinking That won't affect the diet either.
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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!
 
 
Purred: Sat Mar 2, '13 5:03am PST 
Hi again Megan. I looked at the ingredients of the Better in the Raw that you are planning on using and watched the video on making the supplement. Because there is liver powder in the premix, you do not need to add any organs.

When I first started the boys out on raw 4 years ago I used the TC Feline that Merlin mentioned in an above post. I split the meat portion between ground turkey and chunks of chicken, I believe I used thigh meat, so that the boys would have a bit to chew on too while still having a somewhat "canned" consistency to the food that they were used to. The pre-mix that I had also called for adding fresh liver and raw eggs.

I used pre-ground dark meat turkey because we have a local store that grinds the meat daily themselves, so I was sure that the meat was fresh. If you have a local butcher that you trust, I wouldn't worry about buying the ground from him. Ground meat that is from a regular supermarket is not the best idea though as you have no real idea about how long it's been sitting there, nor about how clean the area where it was prepared really is. IMHO, you do not need to go to the expense of buying a grinder unless you want to have ground meat with bone in it.

As for giving your girls extra bits of meat, organs, and rmb's ocassionally, that should be alright just so long as you either don't over do it, or make sure that you keep withing the 80/10/5/5 ratio (see my first post) during a time period of let's say a week. That is, if you give the girls some liver, and they eat it up, don't give them liver again in the next couple of days, give them some gizzsrds (not an organ in raw feeding terms), some chunked chicken or other muscle meat, a wing, etc.

If you give too many organs, cats can get really loose stools. If you give too much bone, they will have hard, chalky colored stools. This is how you tell if you are overdoing it one way or another. So, there is a read out for you. Remember, in raw feeding, the litter box is your friend; keep an eye on it!

Good luck, and let us know how it goes, or if you have any more questions.

Purrs,
Shade
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