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Ground w/Chunks raw

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your cat's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Mocha

1138114		 
 
Purred: Tue Apr 5, '11 8:43am PST 
So, as I'm doing continuing research of raw for the cats, I'm noticing that there seems to be something missing from ALL of the 'recipes' that I'm finding. They all list liver as a main organ source but none of them list using any kidney or any other type of excreting organ.

Why is this? I thought that cats were the same as dogs in that they needed the 80/10/5/5 ratio.

Now, one of the recipes that I've been most interested in uses chicken primarily, chicken livers, and then supplements with a dried glandular supplement. However, I would presume that if I could find chicken kidneys I could use those instead?

My thought is to use chicken (for affordability) as my bone/meat base and then use turkey as my chunked meat (unless the grinder I ordered can handle turkey bone). So, in theory I could use either chicken or turkey organs (pending the ability to find them). I might be able to add some rabbit in there at some point as there is a woman who breeds feeder rabbits about an hour away, but they're $12 each and a bit out of my current price range (still paying off Mocha's vet bills).

My goal is still to get the girls to go frankenprey, but Hubby is nervous so we've compromised with a diet of ground and chunked meat for now with the occasional whole prey mouse/rat for whoever will eat it (Kira).
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.		 
 
Purred: Tue Apr 5, '11 1:38pm PST 
Mocha, the only reason we can think of that a recipe wouldn't call for an "other" organ is if it's supplemented. For example, a supplement like Alnutrin covers all of the nutrients that the organ would so you don't need to add one.

So unless you're using a supplement, yes, you will need to add an organ meat besides liver. But as far as I know chickens and turkeys don't have kidneys. In fact, they don't have any of the "other" secreting organs besides liver. Both hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meat and can not be used as your "other" organ. You will have to find some other kidneys or sweetbreads. If your grocery store doesn't have them, a butcher should.
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Mocha

1138114		 
 
Purred: Tue Apr 5, '11 9:47pm PST 
BK - This is the recipe I'm looking at:

2 kg [4.4 pounds] raw muscle meat with bones (chicken thighs and drumsticks or, better, a whole carcass of rabbit or chicken amounting to 2 kg; if you don't use a whole carcass, opt for dark meat like thighs and drumsticks from chicken or turkey and remove/don't use 20 to 25 percent of the bone; if using whole rabbit, which has a higher bone-to-meat ratio than chicken, dilute the extra bone by adding another 20 to 25 percent of plain muscle meat and skin and fat from rabbit, chicken, or turkey)

400 grams [14 oz] raw heart (best not to use use beef heart; if no heart is available, substitute with 4000 mg Taurine)

200 grams [7 oz] raw liver (don't use beef liver; if you can't find appropriate liver, you can substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D--but try to use real liver rather than substitutes)

NOTE: If you cannot find the heart or liver and decide to substitute with the Taurine/Vitamin A and D, then remember to REPLACE the missing amount of organ meat with the equivalent amount of muscle meat. In other words, if you cannot find heart, you add another 400 grams of the meat/bones. If you can't find the liver, add another 200 grams of meat/bone.

16 oz [2 cups] water

4 raw egg yolks (use eggs from free-range, antibiotic-free chickens if you can)

4 capsules raw glandular supplement, such as, for example, multigland supplement by Immoplex

4000 mg salmon oil (see note at bottom of recipe*)

800 IU Vitamin E ("dry E" works well)

200 mg Vitamin B-50 complex

1.5 tsp. Lite salt (with iodine)

(optional: 4 tsp. psyllium husk powder (8 tsp. if using whole psyllium husks; see note at bottom of recipe**)



I would presume that the glandular supplement would be covering the lack of other organ, but I'm not sure. I was pretty sure I remembered seeing some small kidney-like organs attached to the chicken backs so I double checked online and found some diagrams of the internal organs of a chicken and they do have them, they're just REALLY small.

I think I may just stick another excreting organ in there instead of the supplement, though. I have access to pork brain, spleen (usually venison), and beef kidney. *thoughtful look* Wonder if Mocha'll be able to tolerate beef kidney.
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.		 
 
Purred: Wed Apr 6, '11 5:19am PST 
I think you're right - I think this recipe uses the glandular supplement instead of the "other" organ. But you have access to some *great* organs - I would use them if I were you. (I don't know about the pork brain, but that is probably just me.) I don't recall Mocha's specific issues but if you think he may be allergic to beef you should still be able to feed the kidney - they are usually only allergic to the muscle meat.

And I guess I didn't mean that chickens didn't HAVE kidneys, just that they're useless for raw feeding. I didn't want you to go in your grocery store and ask for a bag of chicken kidneys!! laugh out loud
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