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Question...

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your cat's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Mocha

1138114
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 1:47pm PST 
We have a cat who's been diagnosed with being in the VERY early stages of kidney disease. I feed raw to my dog, and was in the process of doing research and getting the cats transferred over to raw. We had successfully made the transition from kibble to wet, and then Mocha's bloodwork showed up positive for kidney disease. She was doing ok on the wet, but absolutly refused the wet food for kidney disease (I won't feed Hills, so we were left with Royal Canin).

Now, she's on the Royal Canin Renal Failure kibble, but she's just not thriving and her last batch of bloodwork showed that the food was doing what was necessary for the kidney disease, but was showing some potential Thyroid issues.

Most of the research I've done says that Kidney Cats need diets low in protein, but I've also read that raw diets can be very beneficial for cats who are in the early stages of the disease.

Does anyone have any experience with this?
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 3:56pm PST 
Our friend Bill knows something about this - I'll try to get him over here. And Mo will be able to help too. I do recall something about bone - it's the phosphorus that's a problem not the protein. I believe our friend used a phosphorus binder that worked well.
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Mo

Save Plants - Let Me Eat- Meat!!!
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 9:26pm PST 
It isn't protein that is the problem for CRF cats - it is phosphorus.

I never was able to get Milo to eat a raw diet. He fought CRF for two years before it became to much for him and he had to be put down.

What kind of meds did the vet put Mocha on?

Here are a few things that helped Milo a lot as well as one thing I wish I had known earlier:

Slippery Elm Bark helps with nausea, something that CRF cats battle with a lot. Click on the link to read more about using it.

Another thing that helped him a lot was calcitriol. It is something that you need to get a prescription from your vet for. If I remember right, it is a form of vitamin D maybe? When Milo was started on this his appetite/attitude improved a lot. The only battle was getting the pills down him as he hated being given pills.

You should also consider giving Benazepril. Again it is something that helped out Milo a lot.

Then there are phosphorus binders that can help lower the phosphorus levels in food. I got mine from thrivingpets.com. This site has information about the dosage and usage of a phosphorus binder.

Are you giving Sub-Q Fluids? Personally I think this is a must for a CRF cat. Your vet should be willing to teach you how to give this. It works best if you can use terumo needles as they hurt a lot less to the cat.

The thing that I wish I had known about earlier is B12. www.ibdkitties.net/b12 has information on why B12 is important. Although Mocha doesn't have IBD (or I am assuming he doesn't) it is a very good article to look at for info. When you give a cat sub-q fluids, the extra fluids washes out vitamin B, so a CRF cat needs extra b12. This is something I didn't learn about till after Milo passed away - but I have used B12 on two of my cats, Rajah and Wayward, with great results so far.
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Mo

Save Plants - Let Me Eat- Meat!!!
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 9:38pm PST 
Because I never was able to feed Milo a raw diet I don't know much about feeding it to a cat with CRF. One thing I do know is that you should try feed fattier cuts of meat. Fat is high in calories, which a CRF cat needs, but low in phosphorus. Somewhere around 1/3 of a cats diet can be in fat. You could also add a phosphorus binder to the food mentioned in my previous post.

I do know that CRF (chronic renal failure) cats should never be fed dry food. Dry food dehydrates a cat and combined with the fact that CRF cats are prone to dehydration already, it really isn't a good idea. You said that Mocha does eat wet food so how about switching to an all wet food diet while trying to figure out raw feeding a cat with crf?

Here is a list of a few wet foods that are low in phosphorus - you are aiming for foods that are between 0.3(ish) to 0.9%:

Solid Gold Chicken, Turkey, White Fish & Liver @ 0.55%
Organix Organic Turkey & Organic Spinach @ 0.65%
Organix Organic Turkey, Brown Rice & Chicken @ 0.66%
Organix Organic Turkey, Chicken and Seafood @ 0.67%
By Nature Organic Turkey & Turkey Liver @ 0.68%
Brandon Farms Organic Turkey & Turkey Liver @ 0.68%
By Nature Organic Chicken & Chicken Liver @ 0.68%
Brandon Farms Organic Chicken & Chicken Liver @ 0.68%
By Nature Organic Turkey & Chicken @ 0.68
Brandon Farms Organic Turkey & Chicken @ 0.68%
By Nature Organic Chicken & Mackerel @ 0.68%
Brandon Farms Organic Chicken & Mackerel @ 0.68%
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Mocha

1138114
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 9:47pm PST 
Mo- Mocha isn't on any meds at this point, and no SubQ fluids either (thankfully, I know how to do it due to a previous job). Her blood work literally put her into the VERY beginning stages. Two separate batches of blood were run roughly 2 weeks apart to make sure the readings weren't a fluke. The diagnosis came as something of an accident as she was going in for a dental and with her age we wanted to do some pre-op bloodwork. I have her lab results somewhere around here, but it was enough to flag it for the vet (and myself when I looked over her labs... habit of having worked in a vet's office).

She was, at one point, on wet food but when the diagnosis came she completely refused the wet for the renal failure so we ended up putting her back on kibble. Once on the kibble the recheck on her bloodwork (roughly 2 months later) came back fine.

I'm sorry if you mentioned this in one of your posts, but my brain is fried at the moment... if we put her back onto the wet food, would it still be suggested that she be put on a phosphorus binder? Is there such a thing as being too low on phosphorus? Also, any suggestions for upping her water intake during the transition back to wet? She's notoriously picky, and it took us nearly 3 months to get her on just wet food and get her weight back up to where it should be. I'm hoping that this time around it'll go more easily.

Also, I'll look into the other supplements you mentioned!
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Mo

Save Plants - Let Me Eat- Meat!!!
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 10:16pm PST 
Do you have a copy of her bloodwork? If Mocha's phosphorus level is normal, then just feed the foods that are lower in phosphorus. If it is to high, then you need to add a binder.

One of the few foods Milo would eat on his own was the Solid Gold which, if the flavor I had listed on a differant post, is low in phosphorus.

The only way I can think of, to get more water into Mocha, is giving fluids. Some cats are great about getting them and sit there purring. Then there are horrible cats like Milo who had to be in a cat bag, with a pillowcase over their head, while he was sitting in the litterbox (he freaked himself out so much he peed), with one person holding him down and another actually giving the fluids. Rajah is thankfully one of those cats that sit there purring...a huge differance compared to Milo!
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Mocha

1138114
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 8, '11 11:04pm PST 
Ok... pulled her bloodwork, and her phospherous levels were actually on the low end of normal but it was her elevated creatinine, low potassium, and elevated hematocrit levels that concerned us. So, based on this, I'd say no phosphate binders and just get her transferred over to wet again.

Mo... thanks for all of the info! I really appreciate it! big grin cheer
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