GO!

Copyright on Catster?

This is a forum to discuss legislation and legal matters pertaining to the rights and welfare of cats. Please remember to counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice and responses.

  
(Page 1 of 2: Viewing entries 1 to 10)  
Page Links: 1  2  
Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Sun Jun 15, '08 1:38pm PST 
This may seem like a bizarre question (let's face it, most of my questions are), but I'm entirely serious. What are our copyrights to material that we post on Catster? I bet very few of you have ever wondered this. The only reason it occurred to me to ask is because I belong to another site on a different topic, and they are very litigious and hostile, and when you become a member, the Terms of Agreement include a very detailed description of copyright policy, even though it's just a site like this one, with people posting short things on various set topics.

On that particular site, the material is yours until you give them notice that you have left the site (ceased being a member--whatever that means). Then you have the right to take your stuff with you, and to retain the copyright to it. If you leave the site without making it clear that you want to retain the rights to your stuff, the copyrights revert to the site.

I know that most of us are just posting short stuff that will be forgotten in an instant ("Help! My cat just puked up a cockroach!"). But what if you found one of your posts on another site? Or woven into the text of a book? Or found that your diary had been "borrowed" by someone?

The issue of photos has come up frequently in the forums--how some members have found photos of their cats on other sites, or being used in ads. (There's a way to protect yourself from this, but it's not entirely secure. If you REALLY don't want a photo stolen, don't post it.)

But the issue of text hasn't come up yet, to my knowledge. I could just ask HQ about this, but I thought I should run this by other Catsters, just to see if this question had been brought up before, or if anyone knew anything about it.

The Internet is a new medium, and problematic in that not only does it make inappropriate appropriation of data easy, but the laws regarding this seem to be vague. I'd like to have some feedback on this timely issue.

Thanks!
[notify]

Hambone

SF Hammer

moderator
 
 
Purred: Mon Jun 16, '08 9:37am PST 
Hey Harvey, check out Catsters Terms of Service at http://www.catster.com/terms_of_service.php

Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Mon Jun 16, '08 9:59am PST 
Thanks, there, Hambone, you Moderators have a tough job, and do it well! I should have known that someone would come through for us!
way to go

It's beddy-bye time for us here, so we just skimmed the referenced page, but were given the impression that anything we publish on Catster now belongs to Dogster/Catster. Does that mean that Harvey's photos, should I want to publish them in my memoirs years hence, are under copyright to Dogster/Catster, and so I must desist from doing so, or work out some kind of agreement? Or, for example, if I were to want to publish Harvey's diary in book form (don't worry, it's not publishable, this is just a theoretical case), I would not be able to, because the material now belongs to Catster?

Sorry that I'm not making better sense of what is written very clearly on your site, but I'm sleepy, and copyright issues are a bit unclear to me.

Also, what about in the case that something is erased? Does the fact that it once appeared on Catster (photo, diary, etc.) mean that the copyright always belongs to Catster? (Of course, Forum postings, etc., can't be removed, but photos and diaries can be.)

Sorry to be such a moron, but I'm just a cat, so any advice would be appreciated! Meow!
shrug
[notify]


Margaux- Hemingway

It's all about- me, and always- was!
 
 
Purred: Mon Jun 16, '08 12:28pm PST 
HQ, if I am wrong, please please post and let everyone know.

I am a law student, and I took Intellectual Property last year. The terms of service read, to me (keep in mind--STUDENT--not sworn to practice law, so this should in no way be construed as any sort of legal advice; just my opinion) that Catster is just making sure no user sues them for royalties for something the user posted on his or her account. To my knowledge, that means you can still use whatever YOU generated in commerce as long as you do not try to charge Catster for its publicly displaying the material. This is different from the "proprietary interests" of Catster/Dogster such as the "Here Kitty Kitty" trademark. You cannot put Catster's intellectual property in any content you generate and then use that content commercially.

Basically, the terms don't take away your right to profit from content YOU generate; however, Catster has license to publicly display anything you post on their site. As such, if you do commercially publish something that was already on Catster or that you later post on Catster, the site can't be compelled to remove it and may continue to display it publicly. So if you want to have the exclusive right to publish a photo or diary for profit, and you want to eliminate all "free" sources of the information, don't post it here. Sounds fair to me since, if I wanted to post anything for profit, I would have to build my own site or come up with a print version to publish, neither of which I have time or expertise for!
[notify]

Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Mon Jun 16, '08 12:50pm PST 
Thanks, Margaux, for your clear explication of the legalese (and it wasn't even difficult legalese...just that I'm a cat, and not up on this stuff).

So...to get to the nitty gritty, if I want to keep my rights to my stuff, I should not post it on Catster. Fair enough. What about stuff I remove, though? What if I removed Harvey's diary today? Would it still be the property of Catster? Perhaps Hambone can answer this for us, or I should just contact HQ or a moderator directly. No, I don't think Harvey is going to be on the NY Times Bestseller List (typical diary entry: "Today I won four ribbons..."), but this is my/our first experience going public on the Internet, and the laws regarding who owns what are quite murky to us amateurs and cats.

Thanks!
hail
[notify]

Margaux- Hemingway

It's all about- me, and always- was!
 
 
Purred: Tue Jun 17, '08 7:54am PST 
The internet is still murky on these topics as far as courts are concerned as well. You can use whatever you create, in commerce, as long as it doesn't contain any of Catster's copyrighted or trademarked materials. As for something that you did post, it's not that Catster owns it outright. It's that you can't force Catster to reimburse you for their displaying it publicly, and you can't force Catster to take it off someone else's post if they copied it, etc. And remember, even if you remove the post from your site, it is still stored on a computer hard drive that belongs to Catster. You can't make them go through and delete that either because you put it there voluntarily.

It's also a good rule of thumb that if you truly want to keep something as your own intellectual property to publish as you see fit, you need to keep it off the internet, period, because people can and do copy/paste and steal information.

I would talk to a publisher and an IP attorney if you are interested in publishing Harvey's diary and photos, and you want to use content posted on Catster. But by agreeing to the terms of service, you have waived the ability to collect money for the period of time it was published on your Catster profile, and you can't compel Catster to delete it from a hard drive that belongs to them. This is kind of a contract situation. Catster provides a place to publish whatever cat info you want for free, and you agree not to litigate with Catster over what you've independently chosen to publish through them.

Perhaps you could set up your own private Harvey diary that you have absolutely exclusive rights to, and provide a link on Catster? Collect ad revenue from the clicks the Pretty Boy gets? Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish, or if you just want clarification. I think the terms of service are a general, "This is a public site. We let you post publicly, and you know it is public, so don't sue us for publishing."
[notify]

Margaux- Hemingway

It's all about- me, and always- was!
 
 
Purred: Tue Jun 17, '08 8:01am PST 
Oh, and again, if I am wrong, please someone from HQ or a moderator correct me?
[notify]

Dulci (In- Loving- Memory - you

Kitty's final- rest in a grove- of trees
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 20, '08 9:36am PST 
Also remember that by recently reviewed law, anything you post on any site is considered to be a "copywritten" material for you. For any sight to use your photos or your words, you have to give away your right **of refusal**. This does not mean you give away your rights to be protected from, say ME going out and using your words. It just means catster can take a photo it loves, and use it in an ad without your express permission.

Usually, though, sites like this will ask, just as a matter of curtisy. you may still be grieving, for example, and wouldn't want to see a cat who had passed away as the cornerstone of their adds.

though if the cat is a gorgeous and lovey as my dulci, they can have her and share her. hint hint hint. ;-) j/k.
[notify]

Dulci (In- Loving- Memory - you

Kitty's final- rest in a grove- of trees
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 20, '08 9:55am PST 
talking specifics

Quote: Thanks, Margaux, for your clear explication of the legalese (and it wasn't even difficult legalese...just that I'm a cat, and not up on this stuff).
if I want to keep my rights to my stuff, I should not post it on Catster.

Answer: It truly depends on how you mean "your rights". You retain the rights to all your words, images, and ideas formed on catster - be it on forums, bet it on your own page, or be it at any other publicly accessed part of the site. You may use your own images for profit, you may use your own words for profit. What you *cannot* do is 1) prevent Catster from using them for it's own use **within the context of catster**. (that is, catster who let's pretend is owned by Ford Motors, can't share your pics with Ford for it's new cat ad). 2) create a link to the Catster page if you are generating any funds due to the link.

There are several cases including sites like "mypage" or Facepage, as well as "tribes" on which people have posted poems which they later posted in "for profit" sites or books. and they win. it's thier material. but since, as Margaux clearly and correctly stated, you gave it up for free here, Catster can STILL print your poem, even after you've published it elsewhere. you don't get "take backs".

QUOTE: What about stuff I remove, though? What if I removed Harvey's diary today? Would it still be the property of Catster?

ANSWER: techinically, despite what some TOU state, courts have supported that it is never the "PROPERTY" of catster. catster has teh right to USE it, but they do not own it. In most cases to date, the author of a work on the internet owns the copywrite to that work, but grants the website unlimited local use. Does that distinction make sense? You can still use your photos, your words anywhere else you want, they are YOURS. But, when you post them on the internet at a host site, you give up your exclusive right to them.

As for taking them "off", nope. no take-backises.

Quote: but this is my/our first experience going public on the Internet, and the laws regarding who owns what are quite murky to us amateurs and cats.
Answer: - yep, i've been doing this for 7 years now, and the laws are as murky to judges who are deliniating them, as they are to you.

Quick summary.
1) anything you write or create on the internet is "yours", and it is actually hard to take that away from you.

2) generally, at almost any site you use as a forum, as a storage of material, or as a community, the site retains the right to "unlimited" use of your material as long as it is local. The law seems to make a strong distinction between local use and "well, i posted on catster and it ended up on playboy".

3) if an image or words of yours are used in a manner that offends you, the courts have generally been more lenient towards the creator of the work than the site. but that is NOT a hard and fast rule, so if you are concerned (here or any other site) it's wise to ask the heads if they will simply not post your picture in said manner.
[notify]

Margaux- Hemingway

It's all about- me, and always- was!
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 20, '08 10:29am PST 
Thank you Dulci! That is definitely more precise than my answers to Harvey's questions. There is a huge difference between ownership and the right to use, and that is the major distinction I failed to clarify.

Also, while first publication may be used as evidence to establish ownership, it is not the same as an official copyright. You have to go to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office website (I think it's www.pto.gov) and apply for the copyright. You cannot pursue a claim of copyright infringement until you actually own the official copyright to a work.

Again, anyone interested in the exclusive rights to the materials they generate should consult an IP attorney in their area.
[notify]

  (Page 1 of 2: Viewing entries 1 to 10)  
Page Links: 1  2