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Why Do People Go To Breeders?

If you are wondering what is the right cat for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about purring and learning.

  
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 3:53pm PST 
If rescue organizations, would just go to a few shows, and see how very well cared for these cats are, they might not be so critical of show people. But Harvey has a good point too, and I can see both sides.

The average house cat, and I don't mean any of the Catster kitties, for the most part, is never taken to the vets twice a year, for a wellness exam, never taken in for shots, never train their cats, and most let them go outside. Then they wonder why, the kitty is so sick, wellness could of caught it early, and/or shots could of prevented the cat from getting sick, have behavioral issues because they never bothered to teach/train the cat, and I know letting a cat out, is a personal preference, but, in my opinion, increases the chances of the cat getting hurt, sick or killed.

I never knew, most Dalmations are born deaf, its a genetic defect, who knows where it came from, but the breeders don't seem like they are trying to breed it out. Puppies are routinely taken in, at a certain age, before weaning, and if they are deaf, they are destroyed. Made me sick, when I heard that one, they are lucky I ain't a doggy person. One of my show friends picked one out, was told about the deafness thing, she TOLD the breeder, even if the puppy is deaf, she still wants her, and she and her husband have been training the puppy by hand signals, and the puppy is very well trained and behaved.

Then we have the German Shepards, with the hip displasia, that too, is a genetic defect, don't see them doing anything about that either, or maybe its just too late, maybe they just all have it.

Horse's are no exception either. Take the Quarter Horses, when I was a kid, they were know as the bulldogs. They were short, ballpark 14.2, and wide, very wide, hence the bulldog term, I had one, he was wider than he was tall, mol. Then they starting breeding TB's with QH's, horses got taller, like over 16 hands, and looked more like a TB than a QH. Appaloosa's did the same thing, breed the smaller App with the bigger QH's, and thus got alot, of solid App's. Then the color wars began, that was about along the lines of the range wars, no kidding. You had the big boys out West, who had the big bucks, with all the solid App's. The colored people wanted the App returned to the orig App. Now, pretty much, without going into a detailed long explanation, if ya have a solid baby born, your pretty much sol.

Then we have the Impressive saga. Impressive was a top top top QH halter champion. Then comes along HYPP, won't even get into that one, look it up, it ain't pretty, most died. It was a genetic defect, that was traced back to Impressive.

Finally horse people wised up, well gee, maybe we should start breeding that out, ya think? Foals must be DNA tested, and any positive cannot be registered. Forced the breeders, and the big boys out West to police themselfs.

Wish CFA would do the same, all it takes, is the wrong person, to get pissed off, and the journey begins, and some day, it will happen, look what I got accomplished.

HHP people wanted disabled cats to be eligable to be shown. We pushed and pushed and pushed and wouldn't shut up about it, alot worked very hard on this. It was finally passed, and this season, disabled kitties are eligable to be shown. It just takes one, to start the journey.

big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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♥- Roxy- ♥

Polydactyl Maine- Coons Rule!
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 3:59pm PST 
I just wanted to add, I also show my non-purebred cats in the HHP class, and most of the cat shows I've gone to there are rescue groups who show HHP cats available for adoption and usually the cats end up getting adopted by someone who sees them at the shows!

Also no not all or even most Dalmatians are born deaf, it is not that high a percentage.
Same thing with German Shepherds-- not all Shepherd have hip dysplasia, and responsible breeders ARE trying to improve the breed, responsible breeders x-ray the hips and elbows of all dogs before they re used for breeding and do NOT breed dogs with hip problems.
I have a German Shepherd who was originally from a responsible breeder (I adopted her from the previous owner) and her hips are great; they are OFA good and she has NO joint problems.

Edited by author Wed Nov 24, '10 4:01pm PST

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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 6:20pm PST 
I meant rescue groups in general. We have rescue groups at shows too, and they put some of the kitties in the HHP classes. Most judges will ask, are any of the kittens/cats here up for adoption, to help the rescue groups and so the spectators are aware of it.

Was at one show, think it was the Garden State show in NJ, one of the rescue groups kittens was in the HHP class, real cute little guy, we all got attached to him, and hoped he found a furever home, and he was making most of the Finals, out of like over 25 cats. Was one of the last rings of the day, he made the Final, kept calling his number. We refused to let the judge start the Final until he came up. Some even went to his bench to look for him. Came back and they told us, he had been adopted, and his new parents did not want to wait for the Final, took him home, we were so happy he got a home, we all cried. By rule, they should of called up another cat, the judge didn't, we wanted him awarded his Final placing.

At TICA shows, when a kitty gets adopted, they ring the bell, and everybody applaudes, its so cool. I always go look at them, want to take them all home.

Thanks for the info on the dogs, like I said, I ain't a doggy person, but thats what the breeder told my friend, will pass that info on to her, will make her feel better.

Ever get to any Region 4 or Region 1 shows? I am in Region 1, farthest west I been is Buffalo NY and Butler PA, get alot of OH people at our shows. big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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♥- Roxy- ♥

Polydactyl Maine- Coons Rule!
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 7:56pm PST 
I've only been to Midwest shows, but my brother (and Roxy) recently moved to NH so in the future I might end up going to some shows in that area. way to go
Roxy has "retired" from showing but I'm still showing in HHP, mostly Harley my torbie in TICA, she is a Quad Grand Master.

Edited by author Wed Nov 24, '10 7:58pm PST

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Verlaine

Miss Fote O.- Jenik
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 8:51pm PST 
I know Bengals are hybrid, so I suppose that's what you'd call genetically modified, but my aunt said that she had inbred shelter rescues all her life and she wanted a kitten who she could know the approximate demeanor and know that she wasn't inbred. Plus, generally if you have a breeder who knows what they're doing and has quality queens and toms, the health issues are reduced in their kittens. A big reason for me was knowing that Verlaine isn't inbred. And I totally agree about Persians/Himalayans/Exotics; their faces first of all aren't attractive and second cause major health issues for the cat. I didn't know that Siamese had health issues; I'll have to look into that. And with Munchkins, I've heard two stories. The cat has problems with jumping and their short legs put pressure on their organs, but most declawed cats have trouble jumping anyway. The other is that the cat is perfectly healthy and lives as long if not longer that any of the other cats the owner has. Back to the going to a breeder or not; it really all boils down to priorities.

Truly,
Vera's siskitty
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Verlaine

Miss Fote O.- Jenik
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 8:53pm PST 
Hey, this is really random, but I thought polydactyl was a disqualification for Main Coons (??)
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Harvard

Regional Winner!
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 9:02pm PST 
That's great about disabled cats--although does it only apply to the HHP class?

I don't know anything about dogs or Dalmatians, but in cats, as you know, the white gene and blue eye gene are linked, and can also be linked to deafness--but not always by a long shot. I used to know the reason for this, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe it's the same with Dalmatians, since they have so much white fur. Hmm, what about blue eyed Huskies?

I've never seen kittens/cats for adoption or sale at Japanese CFA shows, but the flyers always mention a "For Sale" fee (i.e. you have to pay extra money if you are going to use the show as a place to sell your cats). Depending on the show venue, you get a lot of people walking around oohing and ahhing over the cats, and you like to think that you are enhancing people's awareness and appreciation of our feline friends.
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miss- precious

1157482
 
 
Purred: Wed Nov 24, '10 11:06pm PST 
the reason people go to breeders is because if they rent they don't have to get permission from the landlord cause the landlord will never find out but when they do there goes the animals to the streets, garbage, kill them or just drop them on the nearest back road and that is why all breeders should be shut down. and if you think about it were do you hear about the animals are killed by the breeders. so stop going to breeders and go to the right place. the place were all these animals will end up at the end animals shelters.
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Thu Nov 25, '10 9:26am PST 
This is the Breed Standard for Maine Coons, and yes, in CFA, a polydactal, would be disqualified.


Maine Coon Cat
POINT SCORE
HEAD (30)
Shape .................................................................... .................. 15
Ears .................................................................... ...................... 10
Eyes .................................................................... ...................... 5
BODY (30)
Shape .................................................................... ................... 15
Neck .................................................................... ...................... 5
Legs and Feet .................................................................... ...... 5
Tail .................................................................... ....................... 5
COAT .................................................................... ..................... 20
COLOR (15)
Body color and pattern ............................................................. 15
BALANCE .................................................................... ................ 5

PENALIZE: a coat that is short or overall even.
DISQUALIFY: delicate bone structure. Undershot chin, i.e. the
front teeth (incisors) of the lower jaw overlapping or projecting
beyond the front teeth of the upper jaw when the mouth is closed.
Crossed eyes. Kinked tail. Incorrect number of toes. White but-
t ons, whi t e l ocket s, or whi t e spots. Cats showi ng evi dence of
hybr i di zat i on r esul t i ng i n t he col or s chocol at e, l avender , t he
Hi ma l a y a n p a t t e r n ; o r u n p a t t e r n e d a g o u t i o n t h e b o d y ( i . e .
Abyssinian type ticked tabby).

http://www.cfa.org/breeds/standards/maine.pdf

http://www.cfa. org/breeds/profiles/maine.html


This is the breed standards for TICA for Maine Coons

http://www.tica.org/members/publications/standards/mc.pdf

http://tica.org/public/breeds/mc/intro.php

TICA has a catagory called New Breeds, I have seen poly MC's in them.

PROVISIONAL NEW BREEDS, ADVANCED NEW BREEDS, AND NEW TRAITS:
These exciting classes are for new breeds and new colors or traits in established breeds. These cats are registered with TICA, but have not yet met the requirements for Championship status.

CFA does not allow declawed cats, weather HHP or breed, TICA does allow declawed cats, HHP or breed.

Roxy, I know HHP people in NH and VT, if ya ever need a contact or help, let me know, but we all show CFA, would love to have you come to our shows. Roxy is beautiful, just beautiful, would love to go head to head with Bump, mol.

I been to some TICA shows, made some great friends, and one we talked into showing CFA, mol, and she has been doing quite well, she is from MD.

Don't really care for their cut throat attitude in the ring tho, if you miss a call, they just let you miss it, was getting coffee, didn't hear the call, was on 3rd and final, when I did hear it, they were just going to let me hang in the wind. In CFA, someone will come looking for you, and/or just get your cat and put him in the ring. Out of the ring, they are super, and its only a few. That was at the Weschester show. Was in Lancaster PA and Prowler got sick Sun morn, I pulled him from the rest of the day. Some were downright nasty, said put him in there, and let him get handled. He was the cut off, they needed him, so the Final went from 5 to 10. Ya don't want to know, what, I told them, mol. laugh out loud

Prowler is a Grand Master and so is Bump, and we didn't do that many shows.

big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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♥- Roxy- ♥

Polydactyl Maine- Coons Rule!
 
 
Purred: Thu Nov 25, '10 10:40am PST 
Yeah polydactyls are DQ in CFA. People are working to get them accepted in TICA's "regular" classes but currently they can be shown in TICA's "New Traits" class. I showed Roxy in New Traits in TICA and when she was a kitten I showed her and my feral rescue Church in CFA as HHPs, since Roxy couldn't be shown as a Maine Coon in CFA.

So I've shown HHPs in both CFA and TICA. My youngest cats have only been in TICA though. I like them because you get titles in HHP and HHPs are treated just the same as the purebreds. I've been thinking about taking Harley to a few CFA shows too though because there are only a few TICA shows here a year that I can get to...
I've actually found the people in TICA to be really nice (at least in my area) and helpful. When someone didn't show up for a ring or a final, people would go look for them and a few times they got someone's cat out for the ring if they couldn't find the owner and they were about to miss the ring. The judges also usually will wait as long as possible if someone doesn't show up right away for a ring. There are several people/cats we see at every show and they're all very nice, and several of them helped me a lot when I was confused about calculating points.
One person helped me a LOT with figuring out points and things even though she is our direct competitor! At most of the shows we've been to there were only ~3 cats in the tabby and white division so Harley is directly competing with her cat, who is also a torbie and white. I usually take one of Harley's brothers so she won't be lonely and they're all tabby and white too, but they don't get many finals like Harley does. They've all been to 1-2 shows and are Master or Grand Masters.
My brother is probably going to go to some CFA cat shows in NH, and if I can find any that will be going on when I'm visiting him I'd like to enter. I'll be visiting him next month but I couldn't find any shows nearby when I'll be there, so maybe next time I visit.
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