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Why can't cats be bred less strictly, more like dogs and other animals?

If you are wondering what is the right cat for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about purring and learning.

  
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♥- Socko- ♥

Beware the lean- mean sock thief!
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 11:55am PST 
It seems like just about all animals have a specific breed, or at least an obvious mixture of specific breeds. Cats are the only animals I know of that are probably less than 10% purebreds. My kitten Socko looks like a purebred ocicat himself. I've seen ocicats here on Catster that look like they could be his twin. If it's so much easier to find dogs with specific breed(s) then why aren't they the same way. I'm not saying that my cats not being purebreds keeps me from loving them the way I do, but I'm just wondering, why?
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Cruiser

Top 25 Winner- Region 1- 2011-2012
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 1:08pm PST 
Socko, you come up with some great topics, mol, me and Harvey love you, mol. wave

I hate to disagree with you, but Socko looks nothing like an Ocicat, not at all. Socko is a red mackerel tabby.

Here is a link, and some pictures of Ocicats. The breed originated by breeding a Siamese with and Abyssiniani, and then later were bred with American Shorthairs, they are recognized by TICA but not CFA.

http://tica.org/public/breeds/oc/intro.php

http://www.oci catbreed.com/public/index.php

I don't understand why you feel that only 10% of kitties are purebreds? How did you come up with that one, mol? I don't have the actual numbers, but I think purebred kitties % is alot higher, mol.

I see quite a few kitties on here, labeled as so and so breed, when they are not, really that breed. Saw one the other day, labeled as a Ragdoll, when the kitty is very obviously not, mol, not that it matters, we love them no matter what they are, or where they came from, but you can't always go, by what someone else labled their kitty, mol.

And actually, to get back to your original question, mol, I don't think that cats are bred, strick enough, and using the Ocicat, as an example, they used 3 breeds, that we know of, to come up with this breed, Siamese, Abyssinan and American Shorthair, and who know what else, they might have thrown in there, they are not telling us, and...... the original kitten, some guy, wanted the orig kitten bred back to his mother, thankfully, they did not do this, and the kitten was neutered, and people wonder why, we have so many genetic and health issues in breed cats.

Horse people are the only smart ones, the Associations now mandate testing, and make the breeders police themselfs, any positive foal, will not be registered, and now the mare, the stallion and the foal, are
DNA tested. Someday CFA and TICA will catch up to the horse people. But, AQHA, is like, oh, about a
100 times bigger than CFA, mol.

big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin
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BooBoo

headed for the- light.
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 2:53pm PST 
Sorry, Bump, at least where I am, I agree that the vast majority of cats are mixed! I don't personally know anyone besides my aunt (and people I've met at cat shows) that even has a purebred. Then again, at least 70% of the dogs here are mixed too, I'd say.

Anyway, Socko, here's my theory. It's not that cats are registered any more strictly, it's just that there are less 'cat fanciers' who show than there are people looking for a certain type of dog. Thus, there are a lot less purebreds. I think this MAY be bacause given the uge variation in size, temperament, and purposes dog breeds were originally selected for, people are more likely to want a purebred dog to ensure they get what they want. With a cat, let's face it, it will never end up weighing 100 pounds when you didn't expect it or have a distinctive HOWL that the owner wasn't counting on. Nor do cat owners have to wonder if their kitty will have a natural tendency that they might need or want such as retrieving, pointing birds, or herding sheep. To do all these jobs, dog breeds began to appear and be chosen for much earlier than cat breeds, so the breed records are older as well. So, before spaying and neutering were popular and to some degree today, there are registered, purebred dogs creating 'oopsie' litters with the local mutts, but you can still see the strong breed characteristics enough that you might even think "that's a Boxer' or 'that's a Doberman" if you didn't really know enough about the breed to spot the difference. But it would not actually BE a Boxer or Doberman.
Since kitties look pretty much the same to most people beyond color and hair type, any pointed cat is often labeled "Siamese" or "half siamese" while longhairs get called "part Persian" or "part Maine Coon" when they are actually 'just cat'.
As far as being 'strict' about registering, no animal of any species is registered with a breed association unless it has come from a line of ancestors who are all registered with that association. You can't just go, look, I have a Bulldog, or Maine Coon cat, or Clydesdale horse and register it. (unless it's a 'color' breed, or one of the made up registries in the back of a horse/dog/cat magazine where you could get papers on anything as long as it's the right species, but nobody takes those seriously)
In other words, if you call Meowma a doctor because she is wering a lab coat, no, she's not. If you call your kitty a Siamese because of its color, nope, sorry.
I hope this helps rather than making you more confused!
Hope this makes sense!

And, I agree with Bump--you are cute, but don't look like an Ocicat. In fact, the vast majority of the cats I see here labeled "Ocicat" don't look like one either!

Edited by author Thu Dec 30, '10 2:55pm PST

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♥- Socko- ♥

Beware the lean- mean sock thief!
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 3:49pm PST 
Okay. Well I thought that Socko looked like an Ocicat because I took a look at some of the Catster photos tagged "Ocicat" and I noticed a cat who just about looked exactly like Socko, same color, markings and everything. I sort of get what the two of you are saying. But it seems like every breed I hear about is said to be a "rare" breed.

Also, thanks for the first comment, Cruiser. When Socko and I think of something cat-related, we often post it on Catster.

Edited by author Thu Dec 30, '10 3:50pm PST

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Cruiser

Top 25 Winner- Region 1- 2011-2012
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 4:41pm PST 
Ya Socko, you come up with some really great topics! way to go

They envoke some great discussions and thoughts. I love a good discussion, I love hearing other kitties
thoughts and opinions, and, I usually learn something in the process, mol. laugh out loud

And I always thought, Socko, was a cutie little boy, I love his color, he has such a cute look on his face, so
glad you got him, I know he has a great home. wave

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BooBoo

headed for the- light.
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 5:13pm PST 
Bumpurr left out a very cool thing about you, Socko--your very name makes us smile! I know what you mean about 'rare' breeds, Socko. It is true that at least at the shows I've been to, the most common breeds are Persian, Maine Coon, Siamese and American Shorthair, in that order. (I haven't been to a TICA show, where I hear Bengals are also heavily represented) But I think a lot of people just like to think they have something noone else has. In fact, just as with dogs, it seems very poular to be 'trying to come up with a new breed" these days.I'm not sure any recognized CFA or TICA breeds are all THAT 'rare".
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Cruiser

Top 25 Winner- Region 1- 2011-2012
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 5:32pm PST 
I think when people refer to some breeds as rare, per say, I think they are referring to the fairly new breeds, per say, for example, the Siberian. There are not the amount of Siberians out there, that there are as the older, more establihsd breeds, like the Maine Coon. Harvey's theory is that Maine Coons are naturilized, which I kinda get, but I really don't, mol. laugh out loud

One is more likely to come across a Maine Coon mix, than they are a Siberian mix. Siberians are fairly new, they go like ballpark $1600 for a quality show kitten, and the application and requirements, before they will, even TALK TO YOU, is like pages and pages and pages long. Before I got Bump, I looked into them, I passed the initial test, per say, but I wanted to see the kittens in person. They wanted you to pick out a kitten, from a picture, send a deposit, even then, they won't release the kitten until they were like 12 weeks old. I insisted on seeing the kittens in person, I don't do business that way, and to me, the personality is very important, can't pick that from a picture. She wanted my vet to call her, my vet was willing, then I said to the heck with this. So kept looking, found Bump, should have sent that lady a thank you card, mol. big grin

I don't know where one would find the numbers, mol, and you might be right, there might be more moggies, as they are referred to, than there are purebred kitties, but I think its higher than 10%, Harvey could prob better tell us about this. big grin

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Hermoine

play 23 hours a- day!
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 8:12pm PST 
Socko, you are totally adorable, but not an Occicat, sorry sorry. I think a lot of catsters do tag their pages because they can. And you know I don't know re: my cat Padfoot. (Hermione I do know, as I got her from a Savannah breeder.)


I am guessing there are some purebreds in shelters, as there a kitten mills (disreputable establishments that breed kittens for money). There is a sort of Petland here where I have seen purebred cats. (They are going to have lots of flaws as they are only raised for making money, not promoting the breed.)

I have thought Padfoot comes from there but it woudl be better if he weren't. He has had numerous behavior issues that I think are breeding related. VERY high strung for one thing!

So it is no good if that is how people have purebred cats. Another possibility is various backyard breeder arrangements. I think you could get these for popular breeds like Siamese (my late Siamese came from such a place, Thai was a great cat, but this is pretty hit miss.

My understanding is that MCs were a natural breed that nature built, rather than humans. I don't know if that means you could get a cat that actually was an MC without being bred as a MC. I think for practical reasons the answer is no, but if you were able to accurately do genetic testing on this, who knows?


I suppose the same thing re: Siberians and TAs. Except that these came of the unique environmental conditions of Siberia, say. I heard, I think on Cats 101, that the TA was responsible for the long hair gene. Not sure that I know what to think of this info as they say such hogwash as MCs are known for their unique M on their foreheads, come again?? (no really, they actually said this!) Siberians have a unique fur type with very low levels (in some lines) of the allergen Fd1.

BTW, this is my third purebred (for sure). I got the other two from BYBs. This was over 20 years ago, when people were less aware of getting a cat or dog from the lady down the streets with the cute kitties.


--des
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♥- Roxy- ♥

Polydactyl Maine- Coons Rule!
 
 
Purred: Thu Dec 30, '10 10:59pm PST 
I think it's because dog breeds were created to fulfill different job needs. This is why dog breeds were created in the past, to breed the best dog with the best size, shape, temperament, hair type etc to do specific jobs. So that is why there was a need to created different dog breeds.

With cats, there aren't a whole lot of different jobs that they do require them to look or act any different than a regular cat. So there was no real push to create different strains of cats except maybe if someone liked a particular appearance for aesthetic reasons and wanted to breed more cats to fit that look.

In some places strains were naturally created either because there happened to be a breeding population that were related and happened to have certain genetic traits, or in some cases certain traits made the cats more fit for their environment (like with Maine Coons and Norwegian Forest Cats) so those types of cats were more fit and ended up being more common in the population.
So in general there was no real need for cats of different appearance or type, and also not a lot of people breeding cats for specific traits-- I think it is (or was in the past) more common for cats to be allowed to breed indiscriminately, so random bred cats are more common.

Edited by author Thu Dec 30, '10 11:00pm PST

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kaya skye

not fighting my- demons-we joined- forces
 
 
Purred: Fri Dec 31, '10 12:18am PST 
Depending on how much you care...this will either enthrall you or bore you to tears
But it does explain that there are sixteen natural (or foundation) breeds, forty-one recognized breeds total, and a genetic tracing of how it began and how it proceeded. The statistics kind of made my eyes cross, it's been a long time since I dealt with those kind of trees or neighbors (they started talking neighbor-trees, I thought Ents laugh out loud ), but there are facts among the figures, and I found it fascinating. But then, I'm weird...
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