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Grains and Veggies?

Discuss ways to improve the quality of your cat's life and longevity through proper nutrition; a place for all of your questions and answers about feeding your kitty!

Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times. Non-informative posts criticizing a particular brand or another poster's choice of food are not allowed in this Forum. References to any brand of food as "junk," "garbage," or other harsh names will be removed.

  
Philbert

Snort!
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 9:01am PST 
I thought I might start adiscussion here about something I of saw on an animal planet thing a while ago that I found interesting about carnivores.

Please don't flame me, I just wanted to have an interesting conversation

We talk about how cats are carnivores and are designed to eat meat. But when they eat animals in the wild, they're eating animals that are herbavores, so if they eat rabbit or a bunch of mice or something, and they eat the stomachs, aren't they in turn eating fruits and veggies and grains that that animal has just eaten? So even though I've never seen a cat eat fruit or corn on the cob, it does eat things that eats those things.

and also, if they did only eat meat, then why aren't cans of tuna, or even the merrick 100% meat wet food a full complete diet for a cat, and when you make raw, you have to ad several suppliments and vitamins that you could get naturally from eating fruits veggies and such. Also, I think someone mentioned before, cats in the wild don't tend to have very long lifespans (thought I do reconize that there are a lot of dangers in the wild, but not every day is killed by a "danger") And I know that Grain has its own problems, especially whenits all processed and becomes nothing more than a "gluten" but what about raw wild grains that prey eat?

is it really so crazy that there are fruits and veggies in cat food? (not counting food allergies, thats a whole different thing. I'm willing to bet that wild cats with real food allergies don't survive long enough to procreate)

No flaming,please. Just some raw food for thought !!
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Shadow

Education is the- Key
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 9:38am PST 
Philbert you are right about that, but it is a very small amount of fruit and vegies. The fruit and vegies that are in dry food dont really count, as the high heat they use to make these foods ruins any nutritional value. With the merricks BG I think that you have to add vitamins to that because again of the cooking process. Im not to sure about Raw, maybe someone else can add more here. I do not mind the fruits and vegies in my canned food so much, but the potato I dont like. I think that if there was too much it would spike thier blood sugar so much.
Anyone else have anymore to add cause I would like to know more too.
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Dulci (In- Loving- Memory - you

Kitty's final- rest in a grove- of trees
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 9:44am PST 
as for canned meats like tuna and mackerl, the issue isn't the fruit/vegie debate, but the kinds of nutrition they are getting from protien only.

a mouse has organ meats which have lots of different nutritional components, has bones, cartladige, fur and nails - all of which provide some different nutriants. and as you said, there are small amounts of herbs and vegies in the prey's tummy. like a mouse flavored vitiman pack, don't you think?

but a mouse is maybe 1-5 (numbers made up, of course)% vegies. dry foods are 60-80% vegies often.
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Rasha

On the Prowl....
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 11:30am PST 
I agree, the amount of grains/fruits/veggies in an animals tummy (mouse, etc) would be so minimal that it wouldn't even really matter. In most foods, grains are right up there at the top of the ingredients list and that's when it causes problems. I don't feed raw (hope to in the future) but the thing about it is that you have to feed them a wide variety to provide them with everything they need. No supplements are required unless you don't feed the proper ratio of bone to muscle to whatever else. Certain things provide certain vitamins and minerals.... so if they eat a whole mouse they get taurine, calcium, everything. But if they just eat the leg meat.... then what do they really get besides protein? Then you need other things to help fill in the blanks. Does that make sense? I don't know much about raw feeding but to me that makes sense.... Tuna isn't balanced because well, cats don't really eat too much fish in the wild and also canned tuna doesn't contain the skin, bones and innards that provide the completeness.

I could be wrong but that's how I see it. thinking
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Shadow

Education is the- Key
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 1:33pm PST 
I found this, its what is in a mouse

an adult mouse is roughly 67 percent water, has a calcium-to-phosphorus ratio of 1.1:1, has 3 percent carbohydrates, consists of about 57 percent crude protein, and contains 23 percent fat.

Dry food certainly does not have this ratio.
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Beatrice- (Miss You!- '94-'12)

The very Beast- of all

moderator
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 1:33pm PST 
You've never seen a cat eat fruit or corn on the cob? Check out my page! laugh out loudwink

In seriousness, though, I tend to think that grains in cat food are mostly fillers. Gluten is a protein but a low-quality protein that is used mainly for texture.

Fruits and vegetables can be added for fiber, trace nutrients, other supposed health benefits (such as cranberry for urinary tract health or avocado for skin and coat)...or just to make the food sound more appealing to humans. wink

Edited by author Fri Jun 27, '08 1:40pm PST


Philbert

Snort!
 
 
Purred: Fri Jun 27, '08 2:34pm PST 
ha thats a good point Beatrice! When they talk about "Human quality" foods, maybe people tend to think like "well i would eat cranberries too! it MUST be good!" I think in an ad for Beneful they talk about how they've added cranberries and cheese..which I always thought was kind of wierd.

I guess It would be nice to know why they added certain things maybe. I mean our pets are living much longer now a day, and they could be getting nutrients and suppliments that they never were before. I mean, its not like humans have always been living into their 90's its only even been in the last few generations that people are living so long because of so many new discoveries of how are bodies work and synthesize things (although i do think some of it is fad stuff).

I mean, I wouldn't mind knowing that they added carrots for a reason if it was adding something natural to get a nutrient insteaad of adding some lab-created nutrient. Like the cranberry thing for urinary tract problems.
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Mickey4Paws

Mickey4Paws
 
 
Purred: Mon Jun 30, '08 6:07pm PST 
Here's a very good article written by a vet on feline nutrition:

http://www.catinfo.org/
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