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Behavior & Training > Inappropriate Urination -- Bengal Cat -- (long post, sorry)
Booger

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Purred: Mon Mar 26, '12 8:07am PST 
BK,

I almost forget... what food would you recommend?
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» There has since been 8 posts. Last posting by , Jan 24 12:41 pm

Behavior & Training > Inappropriate Urination -- Bengal Cat -- (long post, sorry)
Booger

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Purred: Mon Mar 26, '12 8:00am PST 
Hi, BK,

Yes, actually, they did drink just as much water on canned as they did/do on dry. If you know anything about the breed, they tend to be very water-friendly. And, like I mentioned before, they are "textbook" Bengals when it comes to water. The silver boy, Halo, will actually get into the bathtub with my little boy. He also seems to be the most water fascinated and will plow you over to get to the sink -- any sink, whether it be the kitchen sink, the bathroom sink, or the wash tub in the laundry room -- to get to the water when he hears a faucet turn on. I have to remove him from the bathroom sink numerous times while I try to brush my teeth, he "demands" that the faucet be turned on for him every time someone goes to the bathroom so that he can get a drink, and -- as you might have guessed -- the toilet is the best toy ever. And, while he does often play in the water, he's a big drinker and never misses an opportunity to get a "fresh" drink. The copper boy, Hemi, who also happens to be the boy who I am having the problem with, isn't quite as obsessed with water as Halo, but he's still a big drinker. So much so that the veterinary office couldn't believe how much water he drank while he was there for a urine sample.

I've looked up some stuff on the internet, and while there's plenty of text that references their love of water, I've never actually read much that said that Bengals are specifically big drinkers. So, I don't know if it's a breed thing or not, or just happens to be something unique to my guys.

On a side note, the drinking was at it's worst when I was feeding the Science Diet c/d (dry)... I was filling their water bowl three to four times a day!
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» There has since been 9 posts. Last posting by , Jan 24 12:41 pm


Behavior & Training > Inappropriate Urination -- Bengal Cat -- (long post, sorry)

Booger

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Purred: Fri Mar 23, '12 7:50am PST 
@ Eko...

Thanks for your reply. I really expected much more "personal attention" from my veterinary office than I have been given and have been thoroughly disappointed over this situation. More than disappointed, really.

@ Tigger...

Thanks for validating my concerns. I've really tried to be "understanding" that the offic and the vet are busy, but I just don't understand being "too busy" to call me back over a truly legitimate concern. I don't believe that I am a "nagging" client and I have never had any payment issues and always pay my bill in full at the time of service, so I really just don't understand it. To update you, I waited almost the entire day and then called the vet's office back later that afternoon just before I left work (same day as my post). The same person that I had spoken to that morning answered the phone and after I explained who I was, she informed me that they had been very busy and that she hadn't gotten a chance to speak with the vet but that I would definitely get a telephone call the following morning. She also told me to continue the meds. (I may have already posted that part.) Well, I waited through the entire following day... and waited, and waited, and waited. Then, just a few minutes before I left work, the vet office called. It was again the same person who I had spoken to before; she said she had talked to the vet and told me to cut the dosage in half again (1/4 tablet, twice a day). The vet was, again, too busy to talk to me. ??? I said, "Ok," but I have not done so. I'm just not comfortable with it. I'd much rather live with the cat pee than cause more harm with meds.

In the meantime, I am looking for another vet. And, while I know that they are required to release the records to my new vet, I'm actually going to go in an request a personal copy for myself. And, although I will not be mean or nasty in any way, shape, or form (cause that's just not in my character), I am going to explain in detail why I'm leaving.


I think you definitely need to see a new vet. These are legitimate concerns you have, and a vet should not be that busy not to speak with you. I recently changed vets because I felt put off by the last visit for my Smitty. See a new vet, and have them go over everything. Your old vet is required to give the new vet your kitty's records. He could have inflammation in his bladder, or yes crystals. I have been through this with Tigger, and you do not want to mess around if it is. A vet that is not concerned enough to speak with you ( they can call during a break, or after hours) is not concerned with the welfare of your cat - just my opinion. Keep us posted! purrs
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» There has since been 11 posts. Last posting by , Jan 24 12:41 pm


Behavior & Training > Inappropriate Urination -- Bengal Cat -- (long post, sorry)

Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Fri Mar 23, '12 7:11am PST 
@ BK...

Actually, I do feed a dry-only kibble diet. And, while I do understand your concerns (I had the same ones), there are a couple of reasons that I do so. While it is true that a lot of cats can't or won't drink enough water to keep themselves properly hydrated on a dry-only diet, that isn't the case with my Bengals. I'm not sure if it's a "Bengal thing," or just a particular characteristic of my cats, but they drink tons of water. So much water, in fact, that I was convinced that they were "sick" because cats normally don't consume such large quantities of water. The problem this creates is that they both tend to have dilute urine -- even on the dry-only diet; and this problem seems to be most severe in the cat with the inappropriate urination problem. As you can imagine, a canned-only or canned/dry diet only seems to exacerbate the issue. (Which was also another problem that I had with the Science Diet c/d since it increases water intake.) So, the decision to try dry-only was a mutual decision between myself and the vet, and I can honestly say that my vet was much happier with the quality of the urine sample after the diet change than she was prior.

Now, granted, with all of that said, I haven't been quite so happy with my vet as of late... so, we'll see.
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» There has since been 12 posts. Last posting by , Jan 24 12:41 pm


Behavior & Training > Inappropriate Urination -- Bengal Cat -- (long post, sorry)

Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Mon Mar 19, '12 11:35am PST 
I don't log in much anymore, but I still love this site...

Just looking for some opinions today.

I posted some time ago about my Bengal with an inappropriate urination problem. Long story short, he had started urinating outside of the litter box. Not all the time, as he still continued to use the box regularly, but the problem had escalated to the point that he was urinating on laundry, bed linens, towels, random places on the carpet throughout the house, and even on tables. He'd been seen by our vet and issued a clean bill of health, and I'd tried every "trick" in the book to no avail. We have three litter boxes (the golden rule of one for each cat plus one). We have two cats, both male Bengals, almost the same age, came home from the breeder together and have always been together with no issues between the two of them, and both are neutered -- early neuter at that. There are no other pets in the home. Aside from keeping the boxes as squeaky-clean as humanly possible, I keep two Feliway plug-ins in my house -- one upstairs and one down -- and I also use a bit of Dr. Elsey's cat attract litter sprinkled on top of their regular litter. Nothing helped, and I was at my wit's end when I wrote my last post.

After I read through the forum posts -- and was both surprised and pleased that everyone was so kind and understanding of how utterly frustrated that I was and the fact that I was considering re-homing, I decided that I really wasn't willing to re-home him and decided that another trip to the vet's office was in order. The second time around, the vet determined that there "might" in fact be a problem based on the urinanalysis and bloodwork. He was given a round of Panacur (to rule out a parasitic-related infection, which was also given to the other cat as a precautionary measure) and a round of anti-biotics. It seemed to do the trick and my house was pee-free for about six or seven months or so.

When he started urinating outside of the litter box again, I immediately assumed that there was a problem and made an appointment with the vet. The vet ran a urinanalysis and informed me that there were a few crystals in his urine and recommended a prescription diet (Science Diet c/d). I gradually changed their food, but even after about a three week period, I saw no change whatsoever. If anything, it was worse. I called the vet back and together we decided that a round of antibiotics couldn't hurt anything and seemed to do the trick the last time, so I picked up the meds the next day and started the cat on them right away. In the meantime, I noticed that at least one of the cats was vomitting up the food and they were both bouncing off the walls. So, after some research on my own part, I determined that maybe the Science Diet c/d was just a little too high protein for my already high-energy cats and maybe even too "rich" for their stomachs, so I called the vet's office and left a message for the vet to call me in her free time. Not once, not twice, but three times. I never did get a return call. The vet had told me that I probably wouldn't need to use the prescription diet long-term and that I could wean them back on to their regular food or experiment with a good quality food designed for urine health after about a month or so, so since no one bothered to call me back, I weaned them back onto their regular food. On a side note, the cat and/or cats stopped vomitting once they returned to their regular food.

We went through the round of antibiotics as prescribed with no change. And, at this point, I'm again reaching the end of my rope. So, I called the vet's office again to talk to the vet about a recommendation she had made about Amitriptyline. At the time that she recommended it, I wasn't really keen on the idea of medicating for an inappropriate urination problem. But, when nothing else worked, I was willing to give it a try.

I called my vet's office early last week and spoke to the receptionist. Again, I asked to speak to the vet because I wanted to talk to her about the medication, but the vet wasn't available so the receptionist took a note and said she'd talk to the vet and someone would get back in touch with me. Well, it was the receptionist who ended up calling me back -- which kind of annoyed me -- to tell me that the vet said that the meds (i.e. Amitriptyline) would be fine and to come pick them up at my earliest convenience. I stopped in the following morning to pick up the prescription -- I had some questions, but the only person I got a chance to talk to was the receptionist (different receptionist than I talked to on the phone the previous day). I asked about the dosage, which was prescribed as 1/2 - 1 pill (they were 10mg pills) twice daily. Of course, I asked if I should start at 1/2 a pill and she determined that maybe I should (yes, I'm kind of annoyed at this point regarding the lack of information that I am being offered) but she was trying to be nice and helpful and offered to cut some of the pills in half for me. I also asked about side effects and was told that the pills were completely safe, that they had lots of cats that they treat that are currently on Amitriptyline -- some for quite long periods of time, and that I shouldn't expect any side effects other than I might notice that he's more calm. Ok, I think, what could this hurt.

We started the Amitriptyline last Tuesday evening. So, at this point, we've had almost a full weeks worth of medication at 1/2 pill twice a day. I was told not to expect any changes for several weeks or up to a month while the medication builds up in his system, but as of the day before yesterday, I noticed that he's very lethargic. Of course, that's quite out of character for my rather high-energy get-into-everything Bengal. Secondly, it's like his coordination is off. He was walking "oddly," as though he was specifically thinking about exactly where to place each paw as he walks. And, last night, he was getting down off the table (yes, my cats get on the table) and was apparently trying to step down or jump down on the chair. He missed completely, though, and fell flat on his face.

I skipped this mornings dose on purpose and called the vet this morning at about 8:30am. I talked to someone in the office who I don't think I've ever spoken with before, and (surprise, surprise) she said she'd take a note and have someone get back to me as soon as they could. Well, here it is 2:30 in the afternoon. No phone call from the vet. And, my mood at this point is beyond annoyed. I thought that I had communicated effectively that I was concerned about his behavior and that I felt it was important that I talk to someone (in case it is a reaction to the medication or in case there is a serious problem that needs to be treated asap). Nevertheless, no one has found it important enough to call me back. As an afterthought, I googled Amitriptyline and.... *gasp* There are some really nasty side effects associated with it's use in cats!!! Why didn't someone tell me this beforehand???

In short, I'm not trying to be a cranky client because I know that vet offices get busy and the staff, especially the doctors, are often overwhelmed... but, this isn't the first time that no one has bothered to return my calls. And, why wasn't I given all of the information on the medication?

So, I'm just looking for opinions. Mostly on whether or not this is acceptable behavior out of a veterinary office. But, any info on Amitriptyline or personal experiences with it would be greatly appreciated!
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» There has since been 16 posts. Last posting by , Jan 24 12:41 pm

Bengal > Inappropriate Urination
Booger

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Purred: Wed Mar 23, '11 4:24pm PST 
Hi...
We have two Bengal kittens, half-siblings (same father, different mothers), both male. One kitten is about six months old, the other is closer to eight months. They came home together from the breeder, and were ten and twelve weeks of age at the time. They were both neutered at eight-weeks of age.
I considered to the breeder to be an extremely responsible breeder. Her home was extremely clean and all cats were healthy and very well cared for. All kittens were seen by a vet several times from birth until old enough to go to their new homes. Of course, aside from being neutered, they were also up-to-date on their vaccines. They were sold with all veterinary records, registration papers, a contract, and a health guarantee. I researched the breeder and was pleansantly surprised to find that many of the cats have done quite well in the show world (even though I was only purchasing a "pet," it was nice to know that the breeder was breeding for quality, conformation, as well as temperment). And, I would not consider this breeder to be operating a "cattery."
The kittens were litter trained (using pine litter) at the breeders home. They did not seem to exhibit any behavioral issues during the transition period after coming into our home. The kittens were playful, very active, curious, etc.. As a side note, there are no other pets in the home.
In the beginning, we had a few instances of "accidents," but nothing that would have clued me in that there would be a future problem with litter box use. I was VERY wrong.
Over the course of the past few months, the kittens have become a nightmare when it comes to peeing in the house. There are four (4) litter boxes, two upstairs and two downstairs. The litter boxes are scooped daily and thoroughly cleaned once a week. They faithfully use the litter box to poo, and also use the litter box frequently to urinate; however, they also urinate LOTS of other places as well. It seems to be a problem that is increasingly getting worse. One of the cats seems to be a worse offender than the other, but both have been caught inappropriately urinating in the home.
They have urinated on our bed twice. They urinate on dirty laundry if it is on the floor. (I used to sort the laundry into piles on the laundry area floor, but now have to literally guard the dirty laundry and keep it locked up.) They will also urinate on clean laundry, especially if it is in the basket. So, I have to IMMEDIATELY put ALL of the laundry away the moment it comes out of the dryer, because if I set the basket down unattended for any length of time it will be peed on. They like to play with socks, which I have seen them drag into the living room or kitchen an pee on, so I have to be dilligent that my little boy (who is 5-years-old) doesn't leave his socks on the floor. They have peed on plastic bags, so bringing groceries requires locking the cats up until all of the groceries are put away. And, I recently discovered that they peed on all of my shoes that were in the bottom of my closet. They urinated on one of the chairs in our living room.
Although it sounds horrible, the problem seems to be somewhat intermittent. They might go weeks without peeing anywhere in the house, and then take a spell where they do it almost every day. Very unpredictable.
All areas that have been peed on have been cleaned very, very thoroughly. (The chair was thrown away.) And, additionally, they do not seem to have a preference for a particular spot nor do they tend to return to an old spot due to smell.
I currently free feed dry food and have clean, fresh water available at all times.
I have tried the Feliaway plugs (continue to use them) but see no benefit.
My next steps are to wean them onto canned cat food only over the next few weeks and consider transitioning to a different kind of litter. Or, making several different kinds of litter available at the same time to see if they have a preference. (I currently use pine clumping litter.)
There has been no change in the locations of their litter boxes or brand of litter. The boxes are standard open boxes, not covered.
Both cats have been checked by a vet several times. Clean bill of health, no UTIs, so there is no obvious medical cause for the behavior.
It is becoming a SERIOUS issue... and, despite my thorough cleanings, I think my house is starting to smell like a litter box. Not to mention the fact that we are having to throw away things that are rather expensive to replsce (i.e. chair, shoes, some articles of clothing that I was unable to remove the urine, etc.)
The cats are indoor-only. They are not declawed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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» There has since been 0 posts. Last posting by , Mar 23 4:24 pm


Cats and a Clean Home > Do intact males always spray?

Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Tue Mar 22, '11 9:57am PST 
I think it varies greatly based on the individual cat as well as environmental conditions. For the most part, I've always had male cats, and other than the two kittens I have now, none of them were neutered prior to at least a year in age (because they had all been strays). Believe it or not, despite the fact that some of the boys were closer to three or four years in age when I had them neutered, I never once had a spraying issue (and they all lived indoors together). I used to think it was because I did everything "right" in terms of number of litter boxes, time spent making sure boxes were scooped, etc... but now I think at least a little bit of it was just sheer luck in terms of the boys' personalities.
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by , Jun 22 9:37 pm


Behavior & Training > Behavior Issue -- House Soiling (Pee)... Sorry, long post.

Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Mon Mar 21, '11 6:12pm PST 
Hi, Penn & Teller...

(I used to post on Catster all the time several years ago. I think the forum has changed since then, though. I don't like the fact that I can't read the previous posts as I write my reply. I'm sure I'll forget to mention something that I wanted to respond to.)
First and foremost, thank you sooo much for your very informative post!!! Kind of made my day, actually. *Sigh.* I guess I was sort of just looking for someone to FINALLY say, "Hey, this isn't normal."

I actually found myself at my breaking point last night and said I was done. (My husband and I had a very unpleasant argument about it.) I even went to all the trouble of posting a Craigslist ad. Of course, that was before I came to my senses and also before I remembered that there are an awful lot of very knowledgable people on catster. Now my email is FULL of people wanting my cats. Which is awfully funny in and of itself because I've had our truck posted for sale on Craigslist for months with not one reply. Lol. (By the way, before any one gets upset, I'm not getting rid of them.)

I've actually thought about contacting the breeder several times, but kind of just put it off. I am going to do just that, though. I mean, seriously, something just isn't quite right with this situation.

I don't want to sound like a know-it-all, but I would consider myself pretty knowledgable about cats in general. My baby (Boogie) who is the cat in the picture, became very sick when he was three-years-old. I was EXTREMELY lucky to have a wonderful vet as he would have died without a correct diagnosis. He was diagnosed with AIHA (an auto-immune disease primarily found in dogs) and lived for more than five years following the initial diagnosis, which is rare -- especially for a cat. After he became sick, I learned everything I could about nutrition and health, which also gave me a good bit of knowledge about cat behavior as well. So, when I say I've done it all, I really have done it all. I'm just so exhausted at this point. And, my house stinks. Literally.

Nevertheless, I agree about the dry food issue. I do free feed, and it is dry, which I normally wouldn't recommend. However, I do make sure that there is plenty of fresh water at all times. Both cats are big water drinkers, which I initally found to be "odd." But, they both have a clean bill of health (no UTIs). Also, the Bengal breed tends to be more of a water drinker than other cats aside from the fact that they love water in general. (They both play in the bathtub with my little boy when he takes a bath at night, and the one actually gets in the water.) I'll give it a try, though. Anything is worth a shot at this point. Nothing cold turkey, so I'll wean them onto canned only over the next few weeks.

I'm also going to change their litter out over the next few weeks as well. I'm sooo not looking forward to clay litter. And, believe it or not, my aversion to clay litter actually has nothing to do with some of the alleged health risks. I actually just despise clay litter. No matter how often I scoop, no matter what brand I use, no matter the size of the rug or mat under the boxes, clay litter seems to end up all over my house. Not that the pine litter doesn't too, it's just a whole lot easier to clean up. I'm going to look up the brand that you recommended in your post and see if I can find it locally. And, I may go back to using the natural litter that is made by Arm & Hammer. I used it with Boogie and really liked it. It's just expensive in the long-run and sometimes hard to find, which is extremely bad if you're out of litter and have a finicky cat.

Bengal are very active cats. I did my research before we brought one into our home, which is actually why I "surprised" my husband with the second kitten. They do best with a playmate... and I can't imagine only having one. I cannot over-emphasize how active they are!!! Aside from each other, they have lots and lots of cat toys. They have scratching posts and a cat tree. Plus, of course, the entire house is a playground for them. I just can't imagine that it's under-stimulation, but if it is... gosh, just the thought of that is almost overwhelming. If my cats are under-stimulated, I have no idea how you'd keep one busy and happy. For the record, though, if you are considering the breed, you really should read up on them. I did my research and I'm still amazed at their energy, intelligence, and athletic ability almost every day.

At any rate, last but not least, I'm starting to wonder if you're right. The behavior really, really, really seems like marking behavior to me. (They aren't actually spraying, but I've read in several places that some cats literally just pee "normally" to mark territory.) Even though Bengals in general are not really known for poor litter box habits as some other "hybrid" breed are, I can't help but wonder. And then...

I've wondered about the neuter, too. As if maybe it wasn't done right? or at all? Although I feel awful saying that. The breeder was so wonderful, the cats were super healthy, the paper work (including neuter certificate) was in order, etc., etc.. But, there was this one particular time that my husband and I came home late one evening and I heard this "weird" noise as I was taking off my shoes. It sounded like it was coming from one of the litter boxes, and I could see that one of the cats was using it. When I realized what it was, I thought that the cat was peeing on something "hard," like the bottom of the litter box. But, then I realized something wasn't right and I took a look. He was in the box, and was squatting down, but he was missing the box. His butt was kind of half-way hanging over the edge. (By the way, I got bigger boxes with higher sides after this incident. No covered boxes, though. I've never liked them and know that many cats, especially in a multi-cat home will avoid an enclosed box.) Well, it seemed to me like he was peeing straight out of his rear, rather than what I would have considered normal. Do you think that's odd?

And, one more thing... one of the kittens had to be neutered twice because even though they thought both testicles were descended at the time of the neuter, they weren't. So, he was neutered a second time to retrieve the "leftover" a few weeks later when it finally dropped. Could this be part of the problem?

Thanks again! And, sorry about the long post again!
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» There has since been 7 posts. Last posting by , Mar 26 6:39 am


Behavior & Training > Behavior Issue -- House Soiling (Pee)... Sorry, long post.

Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Mon Mar 21, '11 9:46am PST 
Although, I'll try changing out two of the four litter boxes to some type of clay litter and see if that has any impact.
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» There has since been 10 posts. Last posting by , Mar 26 6:39 am

Behavior & Training > Behavior Issue -- House Soiling (Pee)... Sorry, long post.
Booger

444670
 
 
Purred: Mon Mar 21, '11 9:45am PST 
Well, they were started on pine litter at the breeder and are not actually experiencing litter avoidance problems per se. I do not use the pellets, I actually use the pine clumping litter.
All four litter boxes are open (not covered) and big. And, again, they use the litter boxes regularly to both pee and poo.

Sadly, this seems to be turning into a true behavior problem rather than something that it an obvious/quick fix such as a litter issue. For instance, I have witnessed them using their litter boxes only minutes before inappropriately peeing on something else in the house. And, although I didn't emphasize it in my first post, they aren't just peeing on the laundry. They have peed on the vinyl bathroom floor, the concrete floor in the unfinished portion of our basement, the lower shelf of one of the sofa tables in the upstairs portion of our house, on top of the dryer, and even on the lid of the grille (which is inside in the unfinished portion of our basement during the winter). All of this is in addition to their preference for laundry. *Sigh.* It's just really frustrating.
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» There has since been 11 posts. Last posting by , Mar 26 6:39 am

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