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Bone %s for Raw Cat Food

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your cat's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Midas

'cause his touch- is too much!
 
 
Purred: Tue Feb 12, '13 12:00am PST 
I have been following the diet listed on Catinfo.org, and that recipe calls for some 15% bone if using thighs. I am currently doing a combo diet and trying to balance it the best I can for both the cat and the dogs. The dogs don't have any problems with the supplements that the recipe on catinfo calls for, so my only real concern is the following: Considering I would like to get the ratios closer to 10% bone, 10% organ and 80% meat, I need to know if 10% bone is going to be a problem for a cat. Honestly, it will probably end up being closer to 13% or so once I add in the organs since I haven't calculated that in and probably won't dilute much further, but I am curious about what a cat needs as far as bone compared to what dogs need. I am going to assume that since this is frankenprey/prey model raw that the numbers should come out fairly similar since we are trying to mimic the %s in a prey animal.

Now that I think of it though, I was curious about using beef or lamb in addition to just chicken. I already know that Midas loves beef as it was one of his favorite flavors when he was on the Nature's Variety canned (and how often he has stolen a raw steak from me!). He isn't allergic. However, I have read people mentioning "hot meats". I don't have any clue as to what that means, so further info would be nice and very much appreciated. It is something the dogs do need in their diet, but since I am simply feeding stew meat I wouldn't have to grind it for them and could just add it to their bowl if it turns out to be a big no-no for cats.
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.
 
 
Purred: Tue Feb 12, '13 10:31am PST 
I'm a little confused but will try to help as best I can. Are you grinding or doing Frankenprey? Either way, the correct percentage of bone is 10%. You may have to fine tune this a little. If their poop is soft or smelly you'll need a little more bone. Too dry and crumbly (to the point that it seems to cause irritation) you need less.

Use as much variety as you can in their proteins - if they like red meat, serve it. BK is real red meat kitty and I feed him beef, pork, lamb and venison. You'll have to use bone from another source of course (unless you're grinding the bone) since red meat bones are so big.

I hope this helps. Please let us know if you have any other questions!
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Midas

'cause his touch- is too much!
 
 
Purred: Tue Feb 12, '13 9:45pm PST 
Sorry for the inconsistency. I am still learning terms. For dogs, there is prey model and BARF. BARF has more greens, fruits, and such, whereas prey model is more akin to what I thought Frankenprey was, that is, an assortment of parts meant to approximate what a prey animal is made from (that 10/10/80 formula). So basically, I am using the proportions that would be used in Frankenprey or prey model, but I am grinding it. I hope that makes more sense.

I will be using chicken as a staple and the bone, but will add beef stew meat or other inexpensive cuts of different proteins as well now and not just stick with chicken! I can't grind beef bones unfortunately, so I will definitely still have to use chicken for the bone. I will also add in some sardines in place of the fish oil at times as he loves the flavor of those as well. Thank you so much for your help!
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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!
 
 
Purred: Wed Feb 13, '13 4:58am PST 
Hi there. As BK said, 10% bone is the official optimal percentage, but with some cats you have to go a bit up or down based on the consistency of their poop. Chalky, too much bone. Too soft, too little bone.

If you are going to be feeding mainly the recipe on catinfo that's great. I'm not sure, when you say you will sometimes add in other meat like beef, if you mean giving them some seperate chunks on the side, or making a beef recipe. If you mean giving them chunks on the side, just be aware that you are now reducing the total amount of bone and organ in their diet, so don't do that too often unless you also plan on giving them additional organs and raw meaty bones (rmb's).

You could, of course, just go with a prey model diet instead of grinding if that is what you are feeding your dogs anyway. Oh, and I don't know what a "hot" meat is. If there is a meat I can buy, I've tried it with my cats.

Purrs,
Shade
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Midas

'cause his touch- is too much!
 
 
Purred: Wed Feb 13, '13 11:22am PST 
Thanks for the response!

I am currently using chicken leg quarters, not the thighs recommended on catinfo.org, so my bone percentage would be 30% if I didn't add more meat. I actually finally figured out my recipe and posted it over on Dogster but haven't received any replies yet. I will post it here for review:

Assuming every chicken leg quarter (30% bone)is 1lb I will add:
1lb of boneless meat (beef, chicken, lamb, turkey, etc)
2oz of liver (beef or chicken)

That would put my ratios at about 15% bone, 6% organ, and 79% meat. Not the ideal 10/10/80, however, not every chicken leg quarter will be that 1lb either. Most will probably be a little less, but I will assume they are that 1lb and still add an additional 1lb of boneless meat. Also, my dogs tend to get loose stool with less than a little extra bone.

I will also be adding some sardine and eggs (no shells), but not in a large quantity. For every 20lbs of the above mixture I will add probably 6 eggs and one or two tins of sardines (no salt added).

Additionally I will try to source another organ so I can boost that 6% number further while hopefully not causing squirts. Does green tripe count as an organ?

For every three pounds of meat (bone/skin/etc) I will also add (mostly for the sake of the cat):

3000 mg fish oil

400 IU (268 mg) Vitamin E

50 mg Vitamin B-complex

2,000 mg taurine (the dogs will not have a problem excreting extra safely)

3/4 tsp Morton Lite salt with iodine


It is very convenient for me to feed it ground. Easy to store, and I just scoop out and weigh each meal from the mason jars. They go through one jar a day between the three of them. It also helps me balance bone better and keeps their stool more consistent. Before, when doing prey model with just one of my dogs, I was feeding enough bone in one day for a week, but then her stool would go to squirts by the end of the week. I couldn't really break out the bone between multiple days though because smaller broken bones are a choking hazard. The problem with having really tiny dogs... While I could still figure it out, this is a much better fit for my busy college lifestyle at the moment.
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BK

Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.
 
 
Purred: Wed Feb 13, '13 12:48pm PST 
Now it get it! This looks really good. You'll just have to keep an eye on the poop. If the cat needs less bone than the dogs you can always add some chopped up meat just to the cat's. In fact, it's a good idea to have some of the meat in chunks so that they have to chew them - it helps keep their teeth clean.

Those of us that do Frankenprey do 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other secreting organ. I believe green tripe counts but I suggest you see if the cat will eat it first. From what I understand it's pretty smelly and if you add it to the mix and they don't like it you've got a whole batch of food they won't eat. The reason Dr. Pierson doesn't add a secreting organ is that she's got all those supplements to make up for it, so don't worry if you can't find anything they'll eat.

One more thing - if it's true that the leg quarters are 30% bone you can always debone a few to even it out. Also, careful with the sardines. Although fish oil is good for their skin, too much fish is not good for cats. In fact, some of us don't feed it at all. Mercury rates are very high in fish and cats can get so used to the smell that they won't eat non-fishy food.

Hi Shade! Always so nice to see you here - it's been a while!
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