Occasional Raw for Clean Teeth?

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your cat's diet, please contact your vet!

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Ralphie &- Randy

1201140

Purred: Mon Jan 9, '12 5:59pm PST


	Ralphie just had a routine scheduled vet checkup, and he has a bit of tartar buildup on his back teeth. It's not in the gumline and his vet didn't recommend a cleaning quite yet, but I'm sad that his teeth aren't in the best shape they could be. He's still just a young-un! I've read on this forum that gizzards or small-boned meats are good for keeping teeth clean. Both Ralphie and Randy are on an all-canned diet now. Hopefully they'll be open to eating some raw being that they were each semi-feral kittens when we got them, presumably eating mice and other small rodents in the neighborhood. I would want to keep them primarily on their canned diet with some occasional raw, but I don't know where to start. May I please get some help from the raw-food experts? First, how often should I feed a raw meal for purposes of keeping their teeth clean? They eat three times per day, one of those a smaller meal. Would substituting one of their small meals once or twice per week be sufficient? If I go to a butcher shop and buy some raw meat or chicken gizzards, how do I determine the proper amount to feed them? Do I need to chop gizzards into smaller pieces? What about bone-in meats? Do I need to chop or grind the bones, or will they leave behind any pieces that are too big for them to eat? I don't want to let them choke on bone fragments or rubbery gizzard pieces. What about feeder mice? Would they help accomplish the goal of cleaner teeth? Thank you in advance for any help or advice. If there is anything I haven't thought to ask specifically, please offer any suggestions. This is completely new to me!

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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 4:18am PST


	Hi Ralphie and Randy, nice to see you on the raw forum! Yes, gizzards and rmb's (raw meaty bones) are very good for helping to keep teeth clean, but I can't pretend that they are the answer to all tooth cleaning problems for every cat. The only true way to really keep a cat's teeth clean is to brush them. Of the 4 cats I have, one still had tartar on his back teeth at his well care exam this past December. The other three have no problems with tarter at all. At any rate, gizzards are a great treat to help strengthen a cat's jaws as well as helping to mechanically work away tartar on the teeth because on their tough consistency. Rmb's also work to help keep teeth clean because of the need for cats to chew meat off close to the bone. Since your guys have never had raw, I would suggest starting off with small, cut up pieces of gizzards. You eventually need to work up to leaving whole gizzards if your point is to have them chewing them for tooth and gum health, but because they are tough little pieces of meat, your boys will have to learn about chewing smaller sized pieces first as well as needing to build up jaw strength. I personally would wait on the rmb's until you see if they'll go for the gizzards first. You can't feed meat/ground bone if your intention is for the bones to help with oral health, the bones need to be whole and as tough as gizzards are, bones are harder. I'm not sure that whole prey are that great for oral health since they a mostly have soft, small bones. You need larger bones, like game hen drumsticks, thighs, rabbit bones, chicken ribs, chicken wings, etc. I think a plan would be to give them some diced up gizzard in place of their small meal and see what happens. Once you've cut the pieces into small bits, put them in a baggie and float the baggie in some warm water to warm the meat up. Many cats hate cold meat and some can't keep cold meat down even if they do eat it. If they won't eat the gizzards, you might want to try to mix it in with their canned food. I don't know if you ever give them treats, but you could try to give them pieces as treats too. I'm excited for you to try the raw with them. I hope they like it and I hope it helps with Ralphie's teeth. Let me know what happens! Purrs, Shade

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Ralphie &- Randy

1201140

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 8:27am PST


	Thank you so much for all the help, Shade! It sounds like starting out with some gizzards would be the best way to go, and we'll see what happens from there. Yes, they do eat treats throughout the day, so maybe I'll start them with just a nibble or two. My spoiled cats don't even like to eat their canned food if it's not warmed first, so I'm sure they'll need their raw to be warmed too. The baggie and warm water idea is very handy! So with the bones, is it more the chewing and scraping meat from the bone that may help clean their teeth, rather than actually eating the bone? If they like the gizzards, would it be reasonable to give them something with a larger bone that they can't ingest? Or do they need to actually grind bone with their teeth to have any potential benefit? I hadn't considered the need to improve the strength of their jaw muscles. I imagine that will be helpful to them long-term, even if it doesn't work to keep their teeth super-clean. I know some cats are more prone to tartar buildup just like some people, but I hate the idea of taking Ralphie in to be put under when he's still so young!

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Ambassador at- the Kitty U.N.

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 9:09am PST


	Shade gave you all the good info! I believe just gnawing on bones will help clean teeth - I don't think they actually need to eat them. To me, the perfect size is a chicken wing or rabbit leg. Only a cat that's used to bones would be able to crack these but they can do plenty of gnawing. Good luck and welcome to the club!

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Ralphie &- Randy

1201140

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 10:05am PST


	Thank you, BK! I appreciate the info on larger bones. I think we'll start with some gizzards and see what happens, and then see how they do with a larger bone to gnaw on. So I guess once they get used to chewing on a bone and strengthen their jaw muscles, they might attempt to crush and eat the bone? And that's okay for them to do? I worry a bit about the potential for choking, even though I know that cats are designed to eat meat.

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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 10:31am PST


	That's why you start small and work your way up. Start with small bits of meat because canned is basically just mush. Once they get the idea, you gradually make the pieces bigger and bigger. Same with bone in meat, start with something small, even smash that something with a mallet to break the bone up. Then don't break up the small bone. Then make the bones larger, etc. As BK said, the larger and medium sized bones that they gnaw the meat off of and maybe eventually learn to break apart are what help with oral hygeine. Smaller bones are to provide calcium and other nutrients to the diet. But again, start small. You can't expect to plop down a full sized drumstick and have them know what to do (don't worry, I know you wouldn't ). Yay, let us know how the gizzards work out! Purrs, Shade

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Ralphie &- Randy

1201140

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 12:18pm PST


	Thank you Shade, that's exactly what I needed to know. I'll just start very gradually with them and watch them closely. I wish I could just throw down a big meaty bone for them to chew and it would instantly make their teeth sparkly and beautiful, but I know that's not going to happen! Now I just need to do a bit of research and find out where to buy good local meat. I don't particularly want to just grab a carton of those suspicious looking gizzards at the grocery store. I've been a pescetarian for many years, so I have not much clue where to start. But yay, a new adventure! LOL!

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Shade

My name is not- Kittyfloss!

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 2:09pm PST


	Well, I buy gizzards at the grocery store, but I won't buy them at all the stores; luckily I have a large selection of stores to choose from. Do you have a more upscale type of store near you? If you're not used to buying meat, it might be hard to tell fresh gizzards when you see them, but they should be kind of a pinky-yellow-cream. Avoid the grey ones! You can also try a butcher shop if there are any near you.

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Ralphie &- Randy

1201140

Purred: Tue Jan 10, '12 7:45pm PST


	Thanks for the tip on what to look for, Shade. I live in a rural area with lots of farms, so it seems like there should be plenty of fresh meat and poultry around here somewhere. I'll take a closer look at what's available at the limited grocery stores here, and check into reputable butcher shops or independent farms. I'm super picky about my own food, and I don't want to feed the cubs anything I wouldn't eat if I were a carnivore. I know your cats are fed VERY well so I know you understand! There is a gang (gaggle? flock? murder?) of chickens that sometimes get out and roam around my neighborhood, eating bugs and entertaining the cats if they happen to be looking out the window. Maybe I should arm myself and keep an eye out for them to wander into my backyard. (Ha! Kidding!) I'm kind of excited to try this. I hope they enjoy it!