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Why Do People Go To Breeders?

If you are wondering what is the right cat for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about purring and learning.

  
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Padfoot

1032354
 
 
Purred: Sun Dec 5, '10 3:58pm PST 
Sorry re: staying on topic. I think the original question was probably answered. I think there was a secondary question re: that going to a breeder is a bad thing somehow.

I think that one way of answering it is this: There are a large no. of children in foster care, why do you have your own children when there are so many? Why not adopt one? There are also children in other countries.

The answer is that not everyone wants to do this.
A legitimate breeder is a fine and wonderful thing. Pox on the houses of the kitty (and puppy) mills and folks who wnat their children to see the wonders of birth in this day and age.


--des
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Sun Dec 5, '10 5:16pm PST 
Forget I posted about inviting other kitties to the LLS, based on some kitties responces, I just thought they might enjoy joining in the fun, so to whoever took offense at it, I do apologize, Bump got put on detention, if it makes ya feel anybetter. wave

I also feel, why to people go to breeders, is a very very broad question, that involve alot alot of factors, its not a cut and dry anser, and I feel those who felt strongly about breeders, and those who did not, had some very valid points, and I liked hearing others point of views, and I also learned some things in the process, which, I like to learn. big grin

At one time, I looked in Siberanians, its a fairly new breed, not many breeders around. One breeder had like about a zillion question application, to fill out, and one of the questions was, if you live in an apt, can you have a kitty, and they wanted a landlord reference. They also asked, why if you had to change your living arraingements, would you do whatever it took, to keep the kitty.

She also wanted you to pick a kitten, from the pictures, and send a deposit, you were not allowed to come visit the kittens in person, and the kittens could not go, until they were 16 weeks. I told her, I was not picking a kitten from a picture, that their little personalities played a huge factor, she wanted to be able to call my vet, my vet was willing to talk to her, but then, I said, ya know what, this is getting to be just too much. I feel breeders should be cautious, but this was a little over the line, per say, so I can see, how some might have not good feelings about breeders.

I still do not understand, why, it makes a difference, if a person lives in an apt, if they get a breed cat or a rescue cat, a cat is a cat, either the landlord is going to allow it, or they are not.

Hope this one stayed on subject, mol. Bump also had to write 300 times, I will stay on subject, which since he don't know how to write, mol, guess who had to do it, yup, Smokey, and she charged Bump for it. laugh out loud
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Spike

Tubby tabby- love!
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 4:37am PST 
MOL, Bumpurr.

I agree that Padfoot is right. We probably have answered the original question, but on the other hand, our various viewpoints on the issue of purebreds and breeders were enlightening to me, at least. This topic doesn't come up much on Catster, and there's no getting around the fact that there are Catster members who disapprove of the whole breeding/breeder/purebred thing. If I had a dime for every time I've heard the statement "buying a cat means that one less shelter kitty gets a home," I'd be rich. Well, maybe not rich, but able to buy the biggest size of coffee at Starbucks. Actually, I just fell into the cat world because I wanted a Maine Coon, and the only way you can get a Maine Coon in Japan is to buy one, and one thing led to another. Previous to that, I thought people with purebred cats were effete and probably not true cat lovers. I love moggies, and would love to have more of them, but...the inn is full.

As for the adopting a child metaphor, I'm not sure if Padfoot is using it the same way that I would. I have, for various reasons, chosen to remain childless. That's just my own lifestyle, and I certainly don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with having children! Yet there are many children, in the U.S. and in Japan, who are conceived by accident, or just because making babies is what you do when you get married, or because people, like all animals, feel an instinctive urge to reproduce. What does this have to do with cats? Well, if a major point of getting a cat from a shelter is to save lives, then perhaps more people who want children should consider adopting underprivileged or special needs children, rather than having their own. I know I'm being oversensitive, but I do not like getting the feeling that some people think I am being uncaring or irresponsible because I have pedigreed cats and am a breeder. Yes, people have implied such things, and even said them directly. I am not being paranoid. All cats deserve love, but I am dubious about conflating cat ownership with doing a good deed. If owning a cat must involve doing a good deed, then why not say the same thing about human children?

Furthermore, I think that many people really don't know what goes on in the world of breeding and purebred cats. Even I don't know everything. I observe as I go along, and report my observations--and not all of them are positive--for the benefit of people who haven't had the experiences I have. Certainly I didn't know what I do now until 2007, when I got Harvey.

One thing I have always found curious about Catster is that breeds are a big topic. Everyone wants to know what "breed" their (usually moggy) cat is. There are several places on Catster devoted to breeds. Yet people who do have purebred cats bought from a breeder may feel marginalized at times. I know that I have. I can't help but take some remarks about breeders personally, even though I know that these remarks are meant for backyard breeders or kitten mills. Even I have my doubts about the practices of some breeders, and often reflect on whether what I have done or am doing as a breeder is right. The thing is that nothing in life is ever black and white, and providing information that allows people to see the grey is important in any debate.

Saving a cat's life is a wonderful thing. I saved Spike's life. But cat ownership should not simply be about saving the life of a cat. For some people, that is a very important thing. For other people, finding a cat who suits their personality and lifestyle is the most important thing. I had Spike long before I got my Maine Coons, and he's still my lover boy, but not because I saved his life, but because Spike is Spike. That's me. Other people can believe or behave differently. What is important is not to be judgmental--except, of course, regarding people who are cruel to animals or negligent in caring for them.
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BooBoo

headed for the- light.
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 7:48am PST 
****Saving a cat's life is a wonderful thing. I saved Spike's life. But cat ownership should not simply be about saving the life of a cat. For some people, that is a very important thing. For other people, finding a cat who suits their personality and lifestyle is the most important thing. *****

.cheercheercheer for this post, Harvey. Thanks for getting this into words. I agree--sometimes people seem to take up a 'cause' and get so passionate about it that they can only see ONE way of doing things. Here on Catster, it seems to be adoption, feeding, and declawing. Since I don't breed or show (yet) I feel the cold shoulder most when I voice my opinions about the other 2- even though my opinions are usually involving "gray areas" - I think it's better to declaw than to throw a cat away if the person is unwilling to work with the cat, or really attaches a lot of importance to their furniture (yes, Meowma would be mad as ____if a kitty clawed up a $2000 sofa if she owned such a thing) and I don't think it's the end of the world if the owner feeds "junk" if that's all the kitty wants to eat.

What's funny to me is that going on such a crusade will make some people go "heck with it, if I have to chop up raw chicken wings or smell cans",or "I have to worry about my furniture" or "I can't go to a breeder and et this GORGEOUS cat I want without being attacked, then I won't get a cat!"
After all, Grandmeowma would blister meowma's butt for tearing up things, and sometimes fed her junk that tasted wonderful but was 'bad'. That does not mean she wasn't loved. And,as Harvey mentioned, most people "breed" their own kids with their choice of mates as opposed to getting one that might be an "undesirable" color or have something "wrong" with it.
Then we will have less people wanting kitties period, and while some might think that's ok we do NOT.
As long as said cat is HAPPY, and loved, we encourage people to get one.
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 3:16pm PST 
I can't tell you, how many spectators, approach me and ask, what breed is he? They were not aware, that CFA has HHP's. Their little faces light up, so happy, that they can show their rescue kitty. I explain the rules, and what they need to do, and what is not allowed. Their faces fall, when I get to the part, that declawed kitties are not allowed. Each and every one of them, has a rescue kitty, weather the kitty wandered in or they adopted the kitty from a shelter, and your talking alot of spectators, at alot of shows, in alot of cities and states, so..... alot of people do adopt rescue kitties, have heard this hundreds and hundreds of times at shows, plus all the rescue groups, who bring the kitties to the shows, and alot get adopted. big grin

So the whole nation, is not, just going to breeders, very nicely tied in, to the original post, mol. laugh out loud

As far as a $2000 sofa getting wrecked, which I don;t understand, weather it makes a difference, weather its a breed cat or a rescued cat, mol. An untrained cat, which is the owners fault, not the kitty's fault, will wreck things and destroy things, doesn't matter if its a breed cat or a rescue cat.

And even getting a breed cat, does not guarantee, the kitty will not wreck things, you have to train said kitty. And even a well trained kitty, especially kittens, breed or not, are going to break things, thats what kittens do. And I feel, if a $2000 sofa, is more important, to someone, than the kitty, then maybe they should not have animals, or kids, as any mother with a kid can tell you, kids wreck things, it just goes with the territory.

I know my brother and I did, mol, when we were little kids, mol, sent to our rooms many a times, which in those days, there was no TV, no computer, no game boxes, etc, ya had your books, that was it, and if you were lucky, the cats came in, and you could play with them. laugh out loud

big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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Harvard

Regional Winner!
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 3:42pm PST 
Thanks, BooBoo! What matters is that the cat is loved and taken care of. That's it in a nutshell. If you can save a life in the process, all for the better.

MOL again, Bumpurr. I can assure you that being a purebred does not mean that a cat won't be destructive. The cat may be less likely to have a URI, ear mites, or parasites when adopted (no guarantee there, however), and be likely to be better socialized than a rescue (that's not guaranteed, either), but as for destructiveness...!!! Maine Coons are known as silly clowns, but I've never read about them being destructive. My present crew, led by their ringleader Harvard, have destroyed three computers in the past year, have ripped open numerous boxes and strewn the contents all over the apartment, have moved a Dyson vaccum cleaner that's even heavy for me to another room, and so on ad infinitum. Harvard is a lovely cat, but boy, is he a holy terror. I can't train this out of him, and while I always tear my hair at his latest act of terrorism, I find it rather amusing--it's just his personality. They say curiosity killed the cat, but in Harvard's case, his curiosity has about destroyed my apartment.

On the other hand, the two Japanese moggies I had before Spike were the best-behaved cats I've ever had. Their mother was a rescued feral owned by my friend; Momcat escaped through the bathroom window the night before she was to be spayed, and came back the next morning with a smile on her face and three kittens in her belly. I ended up with two. They never clawed anything, they never had accidents, and while their personalities remained a bit feral at times, they were GOOD cats. I loved them, but then, I love all my cats (except maybe for the four I'm going to dump on my breeder's breeder in a few weeks, MOL).

I agree that anyone who can't take having their furniture savaged or the other inconveniences having a cat may impose probably shouldn't have a cat. When I found they liked clawing cloth-covered sofas, I got a leather one (no clawing). I gave up on house plants, even fake ones. Forget about ornaments of any kind. No Christmas tree. Oh, yes, they've got me trained well!

I imagine that there may be some breeds that are less likely to jump around and destroy things--Persians, perhaps. And some breeds, like Siamese, are known for things like climbing the curtains.

In any event, just for the record, I love moggies and my Maine Coons equally. I enjoy the cat show world, but as Bumpurr says, it's not restricted to purebreds, and it's simply another way to enjoy cats. It isn't necessarily a status thing. I've never thought my cats were superior because I show them, but I do get an ego boost when they get ribbons. A small vice, that.

Love to all you kitties out there...
dancing
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 5:43pm PST 
MOL Harvey! laugh out loud

Well.... hate to disagree with you, mol, don't think we ever have, mol, we are usually on the same page, but...
Bump knows, he is superior, mol. laugh out loud

The judges set him on the table, he sits down, and as the judges always say, he surveys his little kingdom, here I am look at me, he has show presence, he knows he is special, mol. laugh out loud He loves to show! way to go

The kittens fly thu the house, at warp speed, like crazy boys, sometimes its just a blur. In their travels thru deep space, they knock down, alot, of things, and have broken alot of things. Bump was never that bad as a kitten, mol, and he and the kittens, are the same breeds. way to go

Some people go to breeders, because they are looking for a certain personality "type", per say, but even in breed cats, each cat is an individual, and may not conform to breed standards. big grin

Bump has to keep everybody entertained, mol, he has a sense of humor, and likes to kid around, makes alot of people laugh, but I don't think Howie Mandel, has anything to worry about, mol. laugh out loud
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BooBoo

headed for the- light.
 
 
Purred: Mon Dec 6, '10 6:01pm PST 
***********As far as a $2000 sofa getting wrecked, which I don;t understand, weather it makes a difference, weather its a breed cat or a rescued cat, mol. An untrained cat, which is the owners fault, not the kitty's fault, will wreck things and destroy things, doesn't matter if its a breed cat or a rescue cat. #*********

I think you mis-interpreted my post, I guess it weas not clear; I was pointing out that condemning breeders/promoting rescue was sort of a hot button issue just like declawing and what/how to feed are.
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Spike

Tubby tabby- love!
 
 
Purred: Tue Dec 7, '10 9:24am PST 
Well, Bumpurr, you're certainly right that every cat has a unique personality, whether it's a purebred or not. Some have "presence" or "charisma," some don't. Bumpurr obviously has it, and Harvard does as well. Harvard is a good specimen of the Maine Coon breed, but not as good as Lowell. He gets by in the ring because he's easy to handle and interacts with the judges. Harvey started out being spacy but not hostile, then ended up trying to kill the judges. But vets love him. He had some kind of URI a few months ago and had to spend a few days at the vet's, and everybody loved him because he was so relaxed and friedly. It's a toss-up as to whether cattery cats or rescues are necessarily more laid-back; it depends on the breed (in the case of a purebred), but more importantly, the way a cat has been raised. Nature AND nurture.

Speaking of Spike, I don't know if he was a feral or a kitten who had been dumped in a park with his siblings. Somebody saved him and his brother, and they ended up at my vet's. When I asked my vet if he had a cat to adopt out (my moggy Boku had just died at the age of 18), he showed me Spike and his red tabby brother. The vet said that they had been FIV positive when rescued, and offered to recheck them for me. Lo and behold, they were now FIV negative! Whether he made a mistake in the first place, or, as he said, the kittens had fought off the disease, Spike has tested negative every time thereafter. I wanted to adopt the brother as well, but he was truly feral. He still lives in my vet's cat sanctuary, and my vet says he's one of those cats who will never be able to become pets. From the start, Spike was a very sweet and affectionate cat.

I was thinking about what I wrote earlier about rescuing cats and feeling good that you have saved a life. I do feel that way with Spike. He never would have been put down, but it was only because I was looking for a cat at that time and he was available that we met. I often wonder what his life would have been like if I hadn't adopted him. I always whisper in his ear, "No matter what happens, I'll never, ever let you have to live outside again." Nor does he want to live outside. He's never tried to escape. He remembers what his life was like in the park, fending off carnivorous crows.

One thing about buying a pedigreed cat is that, should something happen and you become unable to keep the cat, it will probably be easier to rehome than a moggy. In theory, your breeder is supposed to take the cat back. If not, there are breed specific rescues. I don't know anything about them, but I imagine that they follow a no-kill policy. A true pedigreed cat, with papers and a nice personality, will probably be able to find a home even if placed in a regular shelter. And friends and relatives may be willing to take in the cat. A while back, a certain Maine Coon breeder became ill, and had to rehome her cats--a lot of cats. Her cat show cronies got together and got them all homes. They were lovely cats with beautiful eyes, and I know several breeders who incorporated these "rescued" cats in their breeding programs. I may have some of these cats in my cats' breeding line--have to check. In any event, when you adopt (or buy) a cat, it's always a good idea to have a contingency plan--what will I do with this cat if I can no longer take care of it? Spike could go back to the vet; I'm sure my Maine Coons could find homes with the help of my friends.

So, yes, I do feel good about giving Spike a home. He's extra special to me that way. But I love all my cats.
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QGM- Harlequin- (Striped- Seven)

I am a show- champion!
 
 
Purred: Tue Dec 7, '10 12:08pm PST 
Hey Spike just wanted to mention, aside from the possibility of "false positives" kittens may also test positive at first if their mother is FIV positive, because they have the maternal antibodies even though they themselves are not FIV positive. When maternal immunity wears off they may no longer test positive.

As far as which cats are more friendly or destructive or personalities of cats from breeders vs rescues, I think it is an individual thing but socialization can play a role as well. My feral rescue kittens are some of the friendliest and most tolerant, and vets and such as always talking about how well-behaved they are. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that I bottle-fed them from 3 weeks old and so they were handled/held almost constantly.

I thought this was interesting:
"Saving a cat's life is a wonderful thing. I saved Spike's life. But cat ownership should not simply be about saving the life of a cat."

The fact of the matter is I would not own most of my cats but for that reason. I have 5 cats who I caught as feral kittens. Saving their lives (or wanting to give them better/longer lives than ferals have) is the only reason I took them in initially. Church was about 6-7 weeks old, I didn't really think about cat ownership when I caught him I just thought about getting him off the streets. Pretty much the same for the litter of 7 (of which I kept 4.) None of them were acquired on purpose, I didn't say "Hey I want a cat so I'll go catch one!" I just happened upon them and could not leave them out there to turn feral... Most of them I was planning to foster and find homes for them, but I got attached and/or could not find good homes. After I had the litter of 7 for a while I did decide I wanted to keep one or two, but I would not have planned to keep 4, it just kinda worked out that way and then eventually I realized that even if I did find someone good to adopt them (which would have been very unlikely/difficult as by then they were past the "cute baby" stage and sadly no one was interested in them) I did not want to give them up, I was too attached and I knew they were not going to be going anywhere.
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