GO!

Why Do People Go To Breeders?

If you are wondering what is the right cat for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about purring and learning.

  
(Page 8 of 12: Viewing entries 71 to 80)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  
Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Fri Dec 3, '10 6:03pm PST 
Roxy, here is a site show people use alot. wave

http://www.catshows.us/

Ku Ju and Boo Boo, would love to have you join us in Late Late Show, its in the What I Love About Catster Section. We start ballpark 9pm E, kitties come on as they can. We have alot of fun! We go on hayrides, Apollo drives the horsies, but the last hayride, he made them jump streams and logs, the kittens, Cowboy, Cruiser and Allie were hanging on for dear life, mol. We had a halloween party, complete with games, had the 6 legged race, bobbing for apples, cider, spooky haunted house. Everybody brings foods, Cruiser is going to Cheffy School, and Pepper helps him with his foods assignments. We have a bonfire, roast marshmellos, Marina has to wipe the kittens sticky little paws and faces. Pepper brings the kittens sippy cuppys, with warm milk, there is always pizza, we have a kitten tent, for the little ones, they have a wide screen TV in there, and watch kitten appropiate movies, they snuggle in their blankeys, and hide cookies in the blankeys and behind the big screen TV, for later. We meet every Friday night, ballpark 9pm E, all kitties are invited to join in the fun!! happy dance dancing blue dog wave
[notify]

Apollo (In- Memory)

Love Ya !

moderator
 
 
Purred: Fri Dec 3, '10 7:27pm PST 
Everycat needs to remember to stay on topic way to go

Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Fri Dec 3, '10 7:31pm PST 
me, right? shrug
[notify]


Apollo (In- Memory)

Love Ya !

moderator
 
 
Purred: Fri Dec 3, '10 7:44pm PST 
No, everyone. I like talking with friends too, but the original poster's question was Why Do People Go To Breeders? We all need to stay on topic.

Edited by author Fri Dec 3, '10 7:46pm PST


Lola

Proud mother of- the Fab Four!
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 12:02am PST 
On Facebook, I get updates from a very special shelter called "Kitty Motel." Look it up; not only will you fall in love with the cats and the people who take care of them, but it has given me, at least, some good ideas about how to keep numerous cats in a relatively small space.

Recently, there was one cat who was a dead ringer for a Ragdoll. It was either a purebred or a first generation mix. Ragdolls are pretty distinctive looking cats, and I can't imagine that there are too many cats without Ragdoll blood who look exactly like Ragdolls. In any event, this cat had some sort of serious physical disability--I think it was unable to use its hind legs. Not as the result of an accident, but a congenital deformity. Which got me to thinking: how could a purebred cat end up at such a shelter? If the cat was only half Ragdoll, who was it who was able to get hold of an intact Ragdoll and randomly breed it? Was the cat the product of a kitten mill? Was it the product of a backyard breeder? Or was it perhaps born into a legitimate cattery? Obviously, I don't know what the answer is. But it seems logical to assume that someone wasn't taking their breeder responsibilities seriously, no matter who bred the cat.

It is easiest to imagine that this kitty was the product of a kitten mill, a backyard breeder, or the half-breed offspring of a cat that had been bought from a breeder who did not require altering. Yet it is also true that there is a dark side to the purebred breeding world, even the world of so-called hobby breeders.

A hobby breeder is not necessarily at fault if a cat dies, or a kitten is born dead or with a congenital deformity. I have had a few infant deaths, and even the vet couldn't determine what the cause of death was, other than the fact that the deaths were not caused by anything preventable. Even good catteries can have cats who have been exposed to coronavirus (most cats have), and no matter what sanitary precautions are taken, sometimes coronavirus will mutate into FIP. Keeping a cattery pristine is, of course, of utmost importance, but cats living in group situations are simply more prone to pass contagious diseases around to each other.

But what if a cat is born with a disability? I have a cat produced by my cattery that suffers from a potentially fatal disability, which is neither congenital in nature nor contagious. I certainly can't sell him. My only options are to keep him in my cattery (which is what a responsible breeder does) or, if I were to find someone who fell in love with him and wouldn't mind sheltering him for what might be a limited time, I could rehome him--that would be responsible as well. But one never really knows what other breeders do. My breeder friends, who are all active in the cat world and have good reputations, all have a permanent resident cat population that ranges from around 5 to 30 cats. Obviously, if you live in a house, you have more room than if you live in an apartment, but that doesn't make it any easier to take care of thirty cats. Thus, the last thing a breeder wants is an extra cat--a cat who is not part of the breeding program, not a cat for sale, not a beloved pet. I suspect that there may be some breeders (I have a particular one in mind) who have ways of disposing of cats that they cannot house, whether that means having them euthanized or simply abandoning them. Yes, we are licensed and under the auspices of the public health department, but that doesn't mean that the authorities know every detail about the birth and death of every cat.

For this and other reasons, breeding can be a very stress-inducing enterprise, especially if you are a responsible sort. I know several breeders who have cracked under the stress and retired from breeding. Some return to breeding eventually, some do not. Right now, I'm taking a rest from breeding, because I was too stressed out the last time Leila had a litter to advertise the kittens and get them sold. I'm going to work on this now, and think another litter is in the near future (that means, I'm thinking of planning a litter--we don't have any oops litters here!). But if the breeder is not on top of things emotionally, things can go bad in a hurry.

Obviously, there will always be people who don't feel obligated to feel any sympathy for breeders. But do keep in mind that even the best catteries can have kitten deaths and kittens who cannot be sold for health reasons (and no, this is not exclusively due to inbreeding; there's absolutely no inbreeding going on in my cattery's line, at least in the past 5 generations, but not every kitten is always born perfect). A responsible breeder keeps these cats and gives them the necessary medical care. A less than scrupulous breeder--? I don't know. But for a responsible breeder, the biggest worry is not going into the red financially; it's producing kittens who die after being bought, or ending up with too many cats in the cattery.

My breeder's breeder has offered to help me sell the four kittens from Leila's last litter, and I will be happy to have them off my hands. Fortunately, no harm has been done, and I've learned many, many lessons about cat husbandry and responsibility from my breeding experiences.
[notify]

Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 12:03am PST 
Hope that was more or less on topic!
dancing
[notify]

kaya skye

not fighting my- demons-we joined- forces
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 1:32am PST 
leila said: As an American expatriate, I see the U.S. from a slightly different vantage point than people living in the U.S. To me, it seems that in politics and religion, and yes, in the world of cat ownership, a lot of people feel safer believing simple, inflammatory slogans rather than investigating the facts and discovering the truth by themselves.

i keep telling you, and telling you...no, it is NOT true that a lot of people here in the U.S. believe slogans instead of having thoughts and following where they lead, we really didn't become a nation of idiots while your back was turned. LOUD doesn't mean numerous, it certainly doesn't mean representative. And so it is with this issue as well. People with extreme beliefs tend to express them extremely, often, and LOUDLY. Simply means that those of us with more flexible mindsets have to get out there and make ourselves known a bit more, i suppose.
Because yeah...people going to breeders so they can fool their landlords? Wow. Reality check? If you can afford a purebreed animal, you can probably afford a pet deposit, or quite probably to live somewhere that doesn't have a NO PETS policy. Just sayin'...
Not to mention, there are SO many ways around that. Use a friend's address? You don't have a friend who lives in their own home or somewhere pets are allowed? (Get out more, maybe?) Craigslist anyone? Because um...we found Kaya online, in a Freecycle ad...red face...hey, go to her page! Legitimate cyber-rescue!laugh out loud
As for the landlord issue, we like to live dangerously. Two cats are now legal due to new management, but that's the max. Wesley is sort of the invisible kitty, though...shh...seriously. the only people who've ever actually laid eyes on Wes are me, my roommate, and one other person. Six plus months, and he's still phantom cat. Adopting feral cats CAN have its advantages...
[notify]

Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 7:34am PST 
Obviously, the voices that reach Japan are the noisiest ones, and that can lead someone like me, whose only contact with the U.S. is through cyberspace, to believe that they are in the majority.

Perhaps I have little patience with people who keep repeating the same patently false beliefs over and over without thinking (I may be accused of doing the same thing, but at least my beliefs are unique; I'm not following the status quo) because I live in Japan. The Japanese have a tendency to repeat things they've heard, no matter how idiotic. Perhaps over half of the Japanese population believe that they are the only country in the world with four seasons.

OK, that was OT.

As for getting a purebred cat to get around your landlord--your response was a hoot. Now that I think of it, anybody who is spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for a cat either lives in a place where cats are allowed or owns their own home. Actually, buying a purebred cat as a way to get around landlords IS something people do in Japan. This could be another reason why buying a cat at a pet store is popular--no checking whether the customer is allowed to have pets.

As a breeder, I'm supposed to ascertain if a client lives in a place where pets are allowed (still rare in the case of rental housing), but like most breeders, I just take the client's word for it. In theory, rescue groups are much more fussy, although again, when I was looking for a rescue cat, I found that no one asked to see my lease.

I lived for twenty years in a place where I wasn't allowed to keep pets, but my landlord didn't live on the premises and my cats didn't go outside, so no one ever found out. If they had, I would have moved to a place where pets were okay. I did move to such a place eventually anyway. My cats then were moggies that I had inherited from a friend, and later, cats from my vet's place. He knew that I wasn't allowed to have pets in my apartment, but a lot of people keep pets anyway.

And yes, this is another area where breeders can be considered irresponsible. The clients I've worked with so far have all either lived in houses or in apartments and already had a pet, so I figured they were legitimate. When I advertised my kittens, I got a lot of responses, and weeded out the obvious loonies from the people who seemed legit. In fact, all the people I ended up selling my cats to were extremely nice. Some came with their spouse or family. Some brought me gifts, the way it's done in Japan.

Which brings up another issue: buying pets online. Famous catteries may get away with having a waiting list for their pets, but most catteries have to advertise. This used to be in cat fancy magazines; now the Internet is the main advertising medium, whether you advertise your cats on your cattery's website, or through a cat breeder group site. I still don't have my own website (anybody wanna design one for me?), so I use the latter. The site I use is the one my own breeder used, and it's the way I found Harvey. Even breeders who have their own website will advertise on other sites as well, just to make sure that their cats have a better chance of getting sold. The site forwards e-mail from prospective buyers to the seller. This e-mail takes the form of a questionnaire that asks questions like where the person lives, whether they are allowed to have pets, and a place where the prospective buyer can write about what they want in a pet, etc. Some of the prospective buyers are obvious loonies, so you don't respond to them. I prefer people who live in or near Tokyo so that I can meet the clients and have the clients meet the cats. This last is left entirely up to the breeder. In theory, the law requires that there is a meeting between breeder and client, but no one checks. My own breeder had no qualms about shipping off cats without meeting the new owners. I have shipped cats myself, but only to people who I knew either through cat shows or through other breeders. This is sort of a grey area. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with advertising over the Internet, but shipping a cat without meeting the owner can be thought of as irresponsible. On the other hand, the breeders who advertise on the site that I do are not sleazy fly by nights who take the money and don't deliver. The site requires documentation that you are a legitimate breeder, and if you do anything dishonest, you can be reported to the local government and have your license revoked. The problem isn't clients not getting the cat they paid for, but anyone who is willing to have a cat shipped to them sight unseen is (I've heard--I've never had this problem) without legal recourse if they don't like the cat once it arrives. Obviously, if the cat is different from the one advertised, or sick, that's a different matter.

I don't think that this situation is ideal, but the breeder does have the choice (legally speaking, the obligation) of demanding to see a lease and demanding that a client actually come to the cattery and meet the cat. Breeders who are eager to sell off their cats as quickly as possible so that they won't have to deal with unsold cats may be less picky about who they sell to. Actually, one breeder refused to sell a cat to me because I wanted to put it in cat shows and eventually use it as a stud. The breeder said that the cat was a fraidy cat who wouldn't take well to showing, and that she wanted to sell the cat as a pet, not as a cattery cat. I was disappointed because he was a beautiful red tabby who looked a lot like Harvey. The punchline was this: it turned out that he and Harvey shared the same grandfather, so the cat wouldn't have been suitable as a breeding cat anyway, since all my cats are related to Harvey in some way.

As a breeder, you do come up against a number of moral issues, and you find yourself constantly asking, "Is this the responsible thing to do?"
[notify]

♥- Roxy- ♥

Polydactyl Maine- Coons Rule!
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 11:57am PST 
I just wanted to mention my vet does not like to spay/neuter until cats are at least 6 months old for health reasons (when feasible), and Roxy's breeder had a requirement of waiting until a certain age (actually they list an age window) before s/n, giving their slow/extended growth as one reason. So not all cats are done a pediatric spay by the breeder. Many breeds have spay/neuter contracts/agreements instead and they may hold back the cat's registration papers until they get proof of s/n.
[notify]

Lola

Proud mother of- the Fab Four!
 
 
Purred: Sat Dec 4, '10 5:35pm PST 
That's what I do, and what almost all Japanese breeders do. I've never heard of a Japanese breeder spaying/neutering the cat before selling it. I ended up neutering some older boys I hadn't sold yet because I didn't want them to start spraying, but spaying is a different matter. I withold the pedigree until the buyer sends proof of s/n, but oddly, no one has ever pursued this. I doubt that these people were using the cats for breeding, though. I think they just didn't want the papers. Actually, I've only sold one litter so far. I kept Chibi's first litter, and Leila's second litter is in limbo because I'm planning to sell them but haven't gotten around to it yet.
[notify]

  (Page 8 of 12: Viewing entries 71 to 80)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12